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Was it because of bocal dystonia?

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

I didn’t think about Liberace in this context. Wasn’t his problem that he mounted his bocal anywhere but in the right places? Or was he just too much of a receiver? (The terminology is all within an ophicleide relevant vocabulary, so why would this thread be deleted by a citizen in this globe’s most recently re-affirmed democracy?)

Klaus

Why did the Ophicleide go out of fashion?

Jim's Top Ten Reasons the Ophicleide Went Out of Fashion
(This list from the owner of a 10-key Gautrot Brevete Ophicleide made between 1900 & 1916.)

10. Have you seen many keyed bugles lately? Same reason.

9. A serpent shaped like a bassoon is not necessarily an improvement.

8. "Tuba" is easier to spell.

7. Have you seen the !@#$%* fingering chart?

6. One word: Intonation.

5. Easier to change a spit valve cork than a low C# pad.

4. Have you seen the !@#$%* fingering chart?

3. When played badly, Ophicleides tend to attract cows in heat.

2. When played well, Ophicleides tend to attract cows in heat.

And the #1 Reason Ophicleides have gone out of fashion ......

1. Have you seen the !@#$%* fingering chart?????

bloke wrote:

Klaus wrote:Our turn for a makeover now!

Klaus,

You folks in your "quaint Scandinavian country heaped in tradition and history" are well into your makeover...

http://tinyurl.com/5b672c

...and, btw, you should quit wasting your time with the English language and ophicleides...It's time to brush up on your oud, nay, qanun and riq chops.

In a sad way you are far more right than any true Dane would want. And I don’t speak like some lady spoke about areas of Virginia. It is a difference between contributors and invading exploiters. Sadly the EU-high court is the worst imaginable mole countering all sane political attempts.

As for the ophicleide, then nothing speaks against it aurally, when Australian Nick Byrne (?) plays it. Whether he plays as a soloist or in a duet with a euphonium, the sound is very appealing.

The same can’t be said of my own playing on my fake serpent, the Squarepent, bought from its British maker. The basic scale and some simple tunes may be recognised. And it is very good ear training.

Klaus

Yes, because in Texas it may be very business relevant to attract cows in heat.

At least in breeding herds here it is very relevant to know when which cows are in heat. I have seen farm workers spending hours in checking the hormonal status of cows. Other farms use a sterilised marker-bull with a bag of chalk mounted below its chest.

Schleppy, get an ophicleide, or just take the slides out of your 187, and you are in for a wholly new business. Only beware of jealous bulls. Or your camel may loose its toes.

Which then in turn might cause some bocal dystonia

K

jobriant wrote:3. When played badly, Ophicleides tend to attract cows in heat.

2. When played well, Ophicleides tend to attract cows in heat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLVKqzHogU

Yeah, but you gotta admit, Doug Yeo and colleagues play the $#!+ out of them in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI" target="_blank" target="_blank

bloke wrote:

You may not like ophicleides, but what do they have to do with crumhorns? The only thing worse that a double reed instrument is a double reed that you have no direct control over...

Surely the word is advancement. All the keyed brass were replaced by valved brass. Once the valve was invented, the tuba was the better low brass instrument, so the ophicliede fell by the wayside as is common with technology - or rather in this case it metamorphised into the saxophone.

When Nick Byrne and Douglas Yeo went to a ophicleide summit their German host played a modern ophicleide, not just a replica. Its maker Benedikt Eppelsheim said, that the original ophicleide models never went through the process of having the keys placed in the acoustically optimal positions. His model had a leaner body with some bell flare. He doesn’t announce it on his site, and it probably will be very expensive like his revisions and re-designs of some very large woodwind instruments.

Klaus

UncleBeer wrote:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLVKqzHogU

[/quote]

Uncle, that led to some REALLY frightening links...

The argument that the valve was better doesn't fit. Keyed mechanisms were very fragile, needed careful alignment with the pads that were available at the time, were unprotected, etc.

The first valves weren't exactly precision, either, but they were sealed, which made them much more robust in the field for the military.

And as someone who spent some time with C/Bb ophicleides, you learn to work around the drawbacks, make intonation adjustments, etc. just as you do for things like the overtone series and just intervals on the tuba, if you put the same time in.


(or, as they used to say in Paris, "Why did the ophicleide cross the road?")

If someone has a place I can post a 12MB mp3 file, I can illustrate why they are no longer used. I play in a Civil War Band each SUmmer and a few years back was asked to arrange a chart for 2 Ophicleides. The players did quite a fine job, but you can hear the limitations, intonation issues, etc.

If nothing else, it is kind of a neat recording!

Besides which, it didn't really go out of fashion in France until Later in the 20th century.

Those little 6 valve French C tubas were merely the valved version of a C ophicleide. And they sure hung on there a long while.

iiipopes wrote:Yeah, but you gotta admit, Doug Yeo and colleagues play the $#!+ out of them in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yes, but....

this is the pinnacle of ophecleideism. It has never sounded this good before that day. Never.

I just wonder why the rackett went down the tubes. It had so much more going for it that the bassoon (well, except range maybe).

knuxie wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI

Ophicleide Summit in Berlin.

Well, that is ophicleides like I have never heard before (actually musical! ). Shut your eyes and they could almost be euphoniums - well maybe baritones? But what they do not sound like are tubas. They provide little of the harmonic foundation/tonal breath of a tuba.

Neptune wrote:Well, that is ophicleides like I have never heard before (actually musical! ). Shut your eyes and they could almost be euphoniums - well maybe baritones? But what they do not sound like are tubas. They provide little of the harmonic foundation/tonal breath of a tuba.

Range-wise and tone-wise, the Ophicleide is much closer to a Euphonium than to a Tuba. Calling the Ophicleide the "ancestor of the tuba" is accurate, but it's a much closer ancestor to the Baritone and the Euphonium.

This is because the length of the air column in an Ophicleide (with all tone holes closed) is approximately the same length as the air column in a Baritone or Euphonium. The fundamental pitch of a Bass Ophicleide in Bb is the same as Pedal Bb on a Baritone or Euphonium, whereas the fundamental of a BBb tuba is an octave lower. In addition, the difference in shape between the bell of an Ophicleide and the bells of Tubas, Euphs, etc, is substantial.

The upper range of an Ophicleide is the same as that of a Baritone or Euphonium as well. And the mouthpiece is about the same size as a Baritone or Euphonium mouthpice -- much smaller than a tuba mouthpiece.

However, the Ophicleide is fully chromatic, all the way down to its fundamental pitch -- and, with the use of the key closest to the bell, 1/2 step below the fundamental.

Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

jobriant wrote:

Neptune wrote:Well, that is ophicleides like I have never heard before (actually musical! ). Shut your eyes and they could almost be euphoniums - well maybe baritones? But what they do not sound like are tubas. They provide little of the harmonic foundation/tonal breath of a tuba.

Range-wise and tone-wise, the Ophicleide is much closer to a Euphonium than to a Tuba. Calling the Ophicleide the "ancestor of the tuba" is accurate, but it's a much closer ancestor to the Baritone and the Euphonium.

More or less the same question arose the last time we featured the ophicleide here, and at that time the suggestion was in fact that the instrument might be more tonally interesting when played a little lower in the range. The high stuff is sweet, but thin on distinctive character.

But I think we did more or less hear that the bottom end is not going to be the strongest part of the range, as it can be with the larger saxophones - the "bugle" is a lot like the tuba's, so the notes at the fundamental will presumably have the same sort of marginal tonal quality.

In any case, even so there's not much chance that they will sound like tubas - luckily for them, since tubas are a dime a dozen!

There is a german manufacturer "Syhre" who has build a modern, valved ophicleide.
On their website they have a quite interesting story about this instrument (there is also an english version of that text).
Here is the link: http://www.musikhaus-syhre.de/