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Saturday night I mentioned to tuben that I had finally found a decent/cheap O-99 to try because my curiosity about this particular horn is abundant. A short discussion of it's history and connection with the 5J ensued. I realized I don't remember as much as I know. I always thought the O-99 came first but the dates don't seem to coincide. Also, although the horns are srikingly similar, there appear to be enought differences for me to question a common lineage. Could someone that knows something chime in with engineer, designer and date info?

LJV wrote:

tbn.al wrote:I realized I don't remember as much as I know.

Welcome to my world...

Things might be very interesting if the reverse were to be true....

bloke wrote: bloke "who probably did not answer the question that was asked...??"

It's a start. Another way of phrasing it might be to ask if the parts are interchangeable? I suspect not, but suspect is all I can do since I do not know. The two horns look a lot alike but I think they must have been designed at two different shops at two different times.

The olds name also has been connected with an attempt of reviving the Dutch Schenkelaars brass factory in the early 1990-ies.

Schenkelaars had more or less faded away at the time Yamaha made an inroad on the European market in the years after 1970.

Klaus

Hi,
From my limited observations,
The Olds 0-99, and the Conn "4J" are "twin" horns (along with the Conn 2J CC,
small Reynold's 3V and 4VBBb, and a Bach 3V and 4V BBb)
I have test fit and played with the valves switched from a 2J, Olds 3V and a small Reynold 4V BBbs, along with both Reynolds and Olds sousaphones.

The Conn 5J BBb and the Conn 3JCC are different "twin" horns that "share " some parts.


Dave Hayami

Yes, as nearly as I can tell. They are identical except for the 4th valve.

Thanks so much for all this info. I have seen most of it before but not all in one place. I believe what I am seeing is that the Olds O-99 3v/4v was designed first and then when Conn moved they started making them as the 5J. If this is true, does anyone know who the lead designer was, Zig?

I have owned in the last year or so both an Olds O-99 and an early 80s vintage Conn 12J. The 12J's valves are larger across in diameter than the teensy Olds valves. The Conn plays bigger than the Olds with its bigger bell and valves. Earlier versions of the Conn horn may have had the more traditional Conn-type valves without the felt ring (King-like) on *top* of the valve cap that mine has.

These horns seem to come from the end of the Olds era and a particularly stormy part of Conn's history, so there is not a lot of info out there about the exact nature of the relationship/partnership of the two companies that resulted in these very similar lines. It does inspire lots of TubeNet threads though.

At one rehearsal recently we had in a row a Conn 3J, Olds O-99, and my Conn 12J. - a family renunion?

Eric "who likes these horns as long as they are not asked to do the work of a large tuba" L.