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After years of thinking it was me I finally got confirmation that it was actually my B&H LP EEb Imperial s/n 152707 (which I think makes it about 1930s era) that was 30 cents or so flat. Having heard about the "Fletcher Cut" on this board I researched it and so went to Ron Partch who has now made my instrument play in tune (to the limits of my own ability anyway!!). While doing that he also reamed out the English diameter receiver to an American size so that I can properly fit my new Perrantuci 65S mouthpiece in there. What a difference! It's a bit like having a brand new instrument and I shall have to learn how to play it afresh!! I was even inspired to get some silver polish and shine it up

Wonderful!!!!! Congrats!

Been there done that Geo, enjoy!

Here are some pix of mine.

ken k

Ken, is that Stewart-style stand soldered onto your horn??? I had a Euph player friend in college who adored his Stewart stand, and considered doing the same thing.

hi T,
yes I had it permanently mounted on the horn. It made it much easier to adjust and I would recommend it if you need to raise your horn up to your mouth.

Where are located in NJ? I went to Rutgers back in the day.

ken k

ken k wrote:Where are located in NJ? I went to Rutgers back in the day.

ken k

I live in northern New Jersey (Hudson County), but I have my degree from MGSA at Rutgers. I really loved it there....New Brunswick was a fun little town.

TMurphy wrote:

ken k wrote:Where are located in NJ? I went to Rutgers back in the day.

ken k

I live in northern New Jersey (Hudson County), but I have my degree from MGSA at Rutgers. I really loved it there....New Brunswick was a fun little town.

my in-laws live in Denville.

k

ken k wrote:

What is the red thing along the 3rd piston compensating loop?

Did this one come original with a 19" bell or is that also a modification?

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Yes, I realised that after posting. I had a pencil holder on my Conn 28D horn, but never have seen a holder fitting tubing of tuba dimension.

Wouldn’t it be a business idea for you to make transparent pencil holders for tubas?

Klaus

imperialbari wrote: Wouldn’t it be a business idea for you to make transparent pencil holders for tubas?

Klaus

To match?

The reason for needing the cut is that the factory either did not know or did not anticipate that the change from the smaller bell to the 19 inch bell would lower the pitch.

The first generation BBb's with the 19 inch bell also had to be cut.

iiipopes wrote:The reason for needing the cut is that the factory either did not know or did not anticipate that the change from the smaller bell to the 19 inch bell would lower the pitch.

The first generation BBb's with the 19 inch bell also had to be cut.

I remember this being discussed by John Fletcher in an article and he said (to paraphrase) he'd complained to B&H about the flatness issue and they wouldn't do anything about it, suggesting the tubas played 'in tune' on their machines. B&H supplied those tubas with a rather small mouthpiece which probably raised the pitch a fraction but since everyone has to cut the back bow to get the things in tune, there is clearly a problem!

It doesn't make a lot of sense since B&H must've made prototypes for testing by top players of the day. These players would've reported the pitch issues surely??

I don't think in this instance many, if any, were sent out to be "play-tested." The trend of "bigger -- bolder -- deeper" was just beginning, and acoustics were not completely understood, especially since on, for example, Bach and Schilke trumpets were offered with a variety of bells. I think they just stuck on a 19 inch, hoped for the best, and sent it out. Notice that second generation Sovs have subtly, but definitely different, bows, braces, etc.

There was also complacency. At this time, Besson ruled the brass band market, both domestic and military, and, yes, quality was high with designs that had been refined over the last century. But nobody realised that this drastic a change in bell geometry was a whole 'nutha kettle of fish, so to speak.

Klaus,
yes this is an original 19" bell but I changed the leadpipe to the lower and larger 981 leadpipe. i think this horn is from the ealry 70's.

The red thing is a detachable word processer, complete with hardware and software.

I use a Monarch music stand pencil clip. It is a black plastic clip with a larger diameter to fit on the shaft of a Manhasset type music stand

see this link to ww& bw:
http://www.wwbw.com/Monarch-Music-Stand ... 6574.music" target="_blank

ken k

As I saw the market back in the 1970-ies until 1978-79, the Besson/B&H Eb tubas only were marketed and delivered with the old style 15" bells. The 19" bells then could be bought from the maker and be mounted as an after-market modification. Maybe British symphony players could buy theirs with a 19" inch bell directly from the maker.

John Fletcher wasn’t a tall man, so he wanted the low-set leadpipe. I have a suspicion, that the 981 leadpipe was invented/discovered by accident, when the bore expansion from the receiver to the 0.689" valve block bore should not happen over the longer (now 982) distance, but over the shorter distance.

Irony has it that the 981 leadpipe now has the same length as the 982 pipe, only that the expansion still happens over the short distance.

The 981/982 models weren’t marketed until around 1983. In the interim from 1979 until 1983 the 3+1P compensators came with the 19" bells and the narrow receivers. I have seen at least one such engraved Besson Imperial, where the Imperial model name until then only had been associated with B&H.

Klaus

A player I used to sit with in a band had an silver frosted B&H Imperial with 19" bell, knob on bottom, march hooks and straight John Fletcher style leadpipe, but of the narrow bore (like 982) - a hybrid of which I have never seen another example.