TubeNet

Hey guys,
I need your help, I'm loooking for a fairly cheap F tuba, but that has a great sound. I was thinking more around the range of 5000$CAN. What are the possibly good brands, of course, I would want a used horn. What are the problems and qualities inherant to these. I have been using my teachers 6 valve B&S(older generation) and it is a great horn overall. The only thing is that I tried a Gronitz and it thes ease of playing is just by far superior to that of the B&S and the horn sounds more opened. What do you guys think???

You mention fine F-tuba models. Are these available second hand within your price limit in Canada?

Klaus

Will this be your first F? I highly recommend an older B&S Symphonie. I currently play & love the Gronitz PF-125, but I believe everyone should learn bass tuba on a German rotory F...primarily for sound concept & learning that low register. I started with a great Alexander F (which might actually be for sale on here somewhere), then a 1980ish B&S Symphonie, and now had the Gronitz 3 or 4 years...jobey

For a decent new F tuba at less than the Miraphone/PT/Gronitz/Yamaha prices, do check out the Cerveny CFB 7535R, like this:



Larger: http://hornguys.com/Images/cerveney_cfb_753.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank

The low range is quite good for a smaller rotary F, better than their larger F's, and better than many pricier rotary F's I've played. They make them to order, and you can also order them with the 5th valve on the right hand, or with a left hand paddle from another of their tubas for, IMHO, better ergonomics.

Best,

Ferguson

A little word picky....but you really mean inexpensive tuba's right?

I own a Cerveny 653. Good solid horn at a really good price. It's little though so if you're looking for bigger then it isn't for you. Though if you're looking for a brand new horn, this is a good bet.

Bob1062 wrote:What's the difference between the 753 and 653? The red brass thing?

probably? I almost sprung for the rose brass.....or possibly silver...but oh well.

bloke wrote:
Your response implies that you find the low range on B&S "Symphonie" F tubas somewhat difficult. I have encountered some Communist-era B&S F tubas that just aren't very good (overall), but the really good ones "sing" in the low range...*if* the player has developed a high level of embouchure accuracy (ie: can buzz a "Db", "C", or "B natural" accurately, immediately, and without variation or fluctuation).

If you really believe the B&S (Alex, whatever) F tubas have deficiencies in this range of pitches, why recommend them? When "new style" flutes first came out (twenty years ago or so) with undercut embouchure holes, I remember flute pedagogists stating the same sorts of things...ie: "Students should learn to play on the 'old style' flutes, because the 'new style' flutes are too easy to play."

bloke "whaaa...??"

]

Hi Bloke,
Great point...I will explain! First off, you NAILED it when mentioning embouchure accuracy...the horn is not the one with the deficiencies! Rotary F's do not have the "forgiveness" that CC tubas do in that register. With students now moving to F tubas at younger ages, some players are immediately turned-off by these beautiful horns because their embouchures are not developed well enough in that register to handle the F, and immediately jump to a piston F to ease the low register. I greatly prefer students to start on rotory F's in order to develop both their embouchure & their concept of "Bass Tuba sound." Growing up on Alexanders & Alex teachers, the sound of many of the "easier-to- adjust-to" piston F's does not quench my appetite (obviously, there are people that sound great on anything, this is just my personal preference).

Did this clarify?

Hmmm...makes me think...would starting on rotor F develop embouchure more quickly? I have to think it might aid in immediately developing a more efficient embouchure! Hmmm...perhaps a new debate!!

bloke wrote:Jobey,

I checked out your site...Your pedigree and playing are first class, as is your apparent instrument of choice.

The only thing lacking in your life is a TubeNet avatar...(well, maybe a hunting license...??)

One of these should do, for now:

.... .- ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / .--. .-. --- .--. --- ... . -.. / - --- / - .... . / .... --- .-. -. / .--. .-.. .- -.-- . .-. / -.-- . - ..--..

bloke-inventions for solutions of tuning problems come by at an amazing speed. As I was a huge fan of Jobey’s playing on the B&S F (blended uniquely well with horn and bone), I however am not sure that Jobey should be the first victim of bloke’s entry into human surgery:

Have your embouchure mirrored!

K

bloke wrote:Jobey,

I checked out your site...Your pedigree and playing are first class, as is your apparent instrument of choice.

The only thing lacking in your life is a TubeNet avatar...(well, maybe a hunting license...??)

One of these should do, for now:

.... .- ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / .--. .-. --- .--. --- ... . -.. / - --- / - .... . / .... --- .-. -. / .--. .-.. .- -.-- . .-. / -.-- . - ..--..

Dunno, Joe....

Both of these look like the mug shots of a serial killer.

The Big Ben wrote:
.... .- ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / .--. .-. --- .--. --- ... . -.. / - --- / - .... . / .... --- .-. -. / .--. .-.. .- -.-- . .-. / -.-- . - ..--..

Both of these look like the mug shots of a serial killer.

And then Jobey isn’t, by far, the most dangerous member of The Triton Brass Quintet:
K

HAAAAAAA!!!!! You guys crack-me-up!!! Beware of Shelagh, she can whip us all!! JK...she's an awesome lady, GREAT player, & fun hang! Sometimes at Tanglewood you can catch us Karaeoke some great (bad) 80's tunes at the Heritage! For any of you guys that frequent Broadway, she's playing South Pacific.

Hey guys, I must reexplain myself. I've been playing F tuba for about 3 years now. The lower register does sound good now although I did have to work on it for some time. The only thing is that these horns are my teachers( Lance Nagels) and I need a new one because I will probably attend another school for my Masters. I love the older B&S, it's just that I was trying to find different opinions on the F tubas. The only thing I have really noticed about these horns is that it just doesn't sound as open as piston tubas. I do know quite a bit about switching instruments and adjusting my embouchure since I've already done it with another horn. I used to own a CC186 mirafone and now I play on one of these monstrous 5/4 Rudolph Meinls.

And about the other F tuba pt10 for sale, I know the guy, I've tried the horn and I'm not really sure I like it. Anyways, keep on telling me what you think. I highly value your suggestions.

Thanks

For the money, I don't think you could go wrong with a Cerveny F tuba. I've owned a CFB 654-6 (also called the Harmony model), a fine 6-valve instrument. It was not a large F tuba, but if the F is not your only tuba, you don't have to have a large F. This was a communist-era horn, one of the better ones, which I think would compare closely to the modern offerings. The sound was huge in comparison to the instrument size, the response and intonation were satisfying, and its small overall size made it great for transporting. I wish I still had mine, as nothing else has fit the bill quite like that horn did.

Lee, what about Lidl and their operations on the tuba market?

There hasn’t come much up about them since your semi-hiatus during your move up-west.

One rumour had them getting tubas made in China and then finishing them in Brno.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

bloke wrote:Jobey,

I checked out your site...Your pedigree and playing are first class, as is your apparent instrument of choice.

The only thing lacking in your life is a TubeNet avatar...(well, maybe a hunting license...??)

One of these should do, for now:

.... .- ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / .--. .-. --- .--. --- ... . -.. / - --- / - .... . / .... --- .-. -. / .--. .-.. .- -.-- . .-. / -.-- . - ..--..

Please take a look at this guy:



How does he dare to recommend which avatars SERIOUS TubeNet’ers shall use?

K

bloke wrote:a-HA!

Now we find out that Klaus is a disagreeable (possibly a) woman basher!

I am deeply offended by this, and may find it necessary to put "someone" on my formidable "foes" list.

bloke "Disagreeable women SHOULD be taken SERIOUSLY."

It isn’t the woman thing, as long as you don’t go merry van. It is the cross dressing thing, because I am not really sure whether the cross dressing happens now or was your earlier incarnation. Small wonder that your grandchild goes pumpkin.

And then there is this lack of consistency in your lateral directionality.


Sorry to say so: That problem is pure merry van in a highly distilled form.

And putting me on your foes’ list won’t help me, as I still will be able to see your posts.

My condolences to Mrs. D.

K

Jobey Wilson wrote: Beware of Shelagh, she can whip us all!! JK...she's an awesome lady.

I must be naive, since I thought Triton was about music. And now you tell it’s about 4 guys and their dominatrix.

K

BigDale wrote:Here's a horn to fall in love with!

From the Dillon site:

$2,895.00
V.F.CERVENY F tuba, 4 rotary valves, bore 18.0mm (.709"), bell 360mm (14.17"), ht. 920mm (36.22"), lacquer.


Gotta really appreciate those guys and they answer any email questions within a day!

Dale, that's the same model I learned to play on many moons ago, under the "Musica-Steyr" brand name. It was a nice little horn, but IMHO, doesn't even come close to one of these:
http://www.amati-denak.com/english/prod ... b_753g.htm that can also be purchased through Dillon's for a paltry $3,695.http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 3-5PX.aspx Again, the 5th valve is darn near indispensible on an F tuba for most of the literature, the Baby Arion plays much bigger than it looks, with a terrific low range and great response in all registers. It would be a shame not to try one before deciding on a first F tuba.

jonesbrass wrote:

BigDale wrote:Here's a horn to fall in love with!

From the Dillon site:

$2,895.00
V.F.CERVENY F tuba, 4 rotary valves, bore 18.0mm (.709"), bell 360mm (14.17"), ht. 920mm (36.22"), lacquer.


Gotta really appreciate those guys and they answer any email questions within a day!

Dale, that's the same model I learned to play on many moons ago, under the "Musica-Steyr" brand name. It was a nice little horn, but IMHO, doesn't even come close to one of these:
http://www.amati-denak.com/english/prod ... b_753g.htm that can also be purchased through Dillon's for a paltry $3,695.http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 3-5PX.aspx Again, the 5th valve is darn near indispensible on an F tuba for most of the literature, the Baby Arion plays much bigger than it looks, with a terrific low range and great response in all registers. It would be a shame not to try one before deciding on a first F tuba.

we're such hams for our horn.....rue the day that someone gets a dog of a horn and blames me or you...