Mouthpiece selection

[sailn2ba]

Is there a systematic approach to selecting a tuba mouthpiece?
I have used a Conn Helleberg for years; first with a Miraphone 185 and for the past ten years with an Amati (Cerveny) 681. A few weeks ago, I tried a BBb Yamaha 321 and it was very stuffy with the Helleberg. Didn't like it at all. As it happened, I had to use that same Yamaha with its Yamaha 67C4 yesterday, and it was a very different horn. Beautiful, with a bigger low range than my Amati. The difference was/is all in the mouthpiece!
Well, I'm tuba-shopping, and I'm afraid I won't be able to evaluate different horns without having the mouthpiece right. What do the experts do when they're shopping for a horn?
BTW, the 67C4 is supposed to be like the Bach 18, but the outer rim diameter measures about 0.13" larger and the Y321 plays a teeny bit better with it than with the Bach (for me). The difference is that I own the Bach and the 67C4 is borrowed.

[sailn2ba]

Hm, but how do you test tubas without the "right" mouthpiece?
How about opinions on general effects of OD, ID, rim width, cup depth, cup taper, and venturi size (mine all seem to neck down at the base of the cup and then open up to the end bore.) on tone and range?

[imperialbari]

Testing a tuba with an obviouisly non workable mouthpiece will lead to nothing.

In short my credo on mouthpieces is, that a good mouthpiece shall allow me to challenge the potential of any given brass instruments. That is: my airflow shall not be choked by any element of the mouthpiece design.

A recently linked to site displays the playing of Mr. Warren Deck as of almost 30 years back. I am enough of an analyst to tell that Mr. Deck used to be as well a high air pressure as a wide air stream player with an amazing ability to sustain long notes. It may be known that my lungs are sore, so the high pressure is out of question for me. On the other hand the wide airstream concept is congruent with my general strive to avoid tensions and restrictions of my inner air paths.

A mouthpiece being too narrow or one creating turbulences will nullify the virtues of my inner-body air conduct. Hence I tend to choose mouthpieces on the wider and deeper side of whatever might be considered average.

A sample:

When hunting for a good Eb tuba almost 10 years ago, I tried the Besson 983 with its accompanying standard mpc, the Denis Wick 3L. I could hear the potentials not being exploited, so I asked for a DW1L. Much better, but still on the leaner side of my imagined sound concept. The matching of the DW1L and the Besson 981 convinced about that tuba. Most of the time since then I have played that tuba with a PT-50 also used on my BBb contrabasses, but as I wanted to diversify my sound palette, the 981 and the Conn’s 26K & 28K since mid-October are played through the Mike Finn 3-H, which offers the same flexibility with just somewhat more focus on these largish basses (as opposed to contrabasses).

But bigger and wider isn’t the real thing in any context. My Danish TubeNet friend, Søren, made my 0.632" bore Besson Eb from 1870 sound better than I ever did when using his Conn Helleberg with a turned down stem. That had me experimenting with my available mouthpieces. One test was with the DW1 (non-L). That came out as a blatant overkill of a fine instrument.

If bloke’s design had been executed in brass, so that I could work on the backbore, as I always do, then I had been a taker, but it only comes in steel for which my tools are too soft. As recently as this (Danish time) afternoon I have tried to investigate the Mouthpiece Express site for information on the Conn Helleberg 7B, but that site crashes Safari on my Mac (which it never did until today). This hints toward my search field being among the less than deepest models for my smaller basses, which also count the Boosey F.

By education I know a bit about physics, shapes, flow dynamics, and sound. And I still haven’t settled on the optimum for the smallest basses, whereas I think I am settled around the larger basses and the contrabasses.

I cannot deliver your ideal choice, only offer an explanation of parts of my thinking modus.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[imperialbari]

The said Warren Deck link is here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30896

Klaus

[TubaBobH]

At the risk of being overly simplistic (and I have been known to oversubscribe to the KISS principle on occasion), it would seem to me that you already own the two representative archetypal mouthpieces from which most all mouthpieces spring: the Conn Helleberg (funnel/deep cup/thin, flat rim/sharp inner edge) and the Bach 18 (bowl/medium depth cup/rounded rim/more gentle inner edge).

One, or the other, of these two mouthpieces should come pretty close to allowing you to get a reasonably good feel for the potential of most any tuba you may be trying. At least that has been my experience. (Caveat - I only play BBb tubas.)

I currently own 9 mpcs, and when I have the opportunity to try a BBb, I use my Blessing 18, my Conn 120S and my LM7. Invariably one, or sometimes two, of these three seems to "ring true" with the tuba I am playing; at least true enough for me to get a good feel for the playability of the instrument. I am not implying that any of these three would necessarily end up being the "best" mouthpiece for the tuba I am trying, just that I think at least one of them will be close enough to being "the best" for me to get a good feel for the playability of the instrument, at least in my hands.

[Tubaryan12]

(1) Buy
(2) Try
(3) Sell
(4) Repeat

If you are lucky and live near a good shop with different mouthpieces, ask them if you can bring your horn, purchase a bottle of Sani-mist, and go to town.

This board is a great place to trade/sell mouthpieces.

Yeah, what he said.