why bottom-loading valves?

[Chuck(G)]

Here is a shot of two French Eb tuba pistons--both about the same 0.620-ish bore size. Note that the top-sprung one is about a third again as tall as the bottom-sprung one.

The very tall valve casings might well explain why we don't see them on tubas more often:

[Dan Schultz]

Here is a shot of two French Eb tuba pistons--both about the same 0.620-ish bore size. Note that the top-sprung one is about a third again as tall as the bottom-sprung one.

The very tall valve casings might well explain why we don't see them on tubas more often:

Hey, Chuck! I don't understand your post. It seems to me that the casing would be roughly the same length because the spring has to be someplace, doesn't it?

I think the best reason for tubas not using top-springs is that it would increase the piston weight to a point where it would affect the piston travel speed adversely.

[Chuck(G)]

Hey, Chuck! I don't understand your post. It seems to me that the casing would be roughly the same length because the spring has to be someplace, doesn't it?

Nope, consider:

• The space under the piston iin the casing's going to be pretty much the same, since the piston has to move through the same distance in either model. Most of the compressed length of the spring in the bottom-sprung version will be tucked into the recess in the bottom of the piston.
• However, take a look at the spring and its housing on top of the piston. The casing has to be large enough to contain the piston and the housing. And we can't do away with the housing since we're still compressing the spring contained therein on the downstroke. If we were stretching the spring on the downstroke, then the top- and bottom-sprung versions could be the same size.

Hope this makes sense.

[Dan Schultz]

Hey, Chuck! I don't understand your post. It seems to me that the casing would be roughly the same length because the spring has to be someplace, doesn't it?

Nope, consider:

• The space under the piston iin the casing's going to be pretty much the same, since the piston has to move through the same distance in either model. Most of the compressed length of the spring in the bottom-sprung version will be tucked into the recess in the bottom of the piston.
• However, take a look at the spring and its housing on top of the piston. The casing has to be large enough to contain the piston and the housing. And we can't do away with the housing since we're still compressing the spring contained therein on the downstroke. If we were stretching the spring on the downstroke, then the top- and bottom-sprung versions could be the same size.

Hope this makes sense.

OK... I'll kinda give you that one. However, I still say that the major problem is the piston weight. All that stuff on top of the top-loaded spring adds a lot of mass.... OK for small pistons but deadly for tuba-sized pistons.

[Leland]

How about:

To fit the same travel in my Nirschl-built 3302's pistons by using top springs instead of the original bottom ones, they would have to extend from the instrument over an inch further than they already do.

That's not necessarily a problem for playing, but it would be scary when I'm walking around a band room or through a doorway.

[Matt G]

A customer of mine (who is known world-wide for playing Japanese-made gold-plated trumpets) actually prefers his "student" Japanese flugelhorn (horizontal slides / top-sprung pistons) to his "professional" gold-plated Japanese flugelhorn (vertical slides with triggers / bottom-sprung valves). If you have an idea to whom I'm referring, this instrument was given to him when he was seven years old...(so if you want to play a wind instrument as well as some of these young protégé string players, starting to play just as early as they do may be one of the untapped secrets).

In a past life, when I played trumpet, I owned that student model Yamaha Flugel. I had friends who had all of the "good" flugels (Benge, Courtois, Yamaha 6XX and 7XX series). Once they played my YFL-2XX, they were blown away.

- Better intonation.

- Freer blowing.

- More flexible sound.

- Easier "switch".

If I were to ever buy another Flugel, thet would top it the list.

BTW, the valves do make a significant difference in the feel. This was just an additional benefit from this model. Again, this made it an easier "switch" not only because of the blow, but the ergonomics and tactile feeling of playing and using the horn.

[Mudman]

I take it all back. Have a nice day, I'm going off to have a nice beer.

Bottle or can?

[Leland]

I take it all back. Have a nice day, I'm going off to have a nice beer.

Bottle or can?

No, the question is, "Bottom loading or top loading?"

Yeah, it applies to beer...

[ken k]

No, the question is, "Bottom loading or top loading?"

Yeah, it applies to beer... [/quote]

or rather bottom fermenting or top fermenting.....