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I too, feel that the sound of that little Yamaha had a lot to do with the signature sound of the Canadian Brass.

It is amazing to me, how much influence the choice of tuba has on the sound of a quintet. I guess that is because there are such a wide variety of sizes/tone quality of tubas to choose from.

Bloke, i assume you're talking about the 822C? it is a very large ,heavy horn, not reallly suited to quintet playing. I used one for that purpose for several years, and it just really is too big. I finally heard our group on a recording and decided to get the 822f instead.Much better...

I had the impression that the 822CC, and the 822F were the same horn, one just has less tubing.

I played both (very) briefly side by side, and came away with the feeling that there was no difference in tonal density. Was this impression erroneous?

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:It is amazing to me, how much influence the choice of tuba has on the sound of a quintet. I guess that is because there are such a wide variety of sizes/tone quality of tubas to choose from.

It's a lot like how a stereo system's sound can change depending on the quality of its bass speaker(s). Taken further, the choice of woofer size & type, enclosure style, and power can all change the character of the whole system.

Chuck's first carbon fiber bell was on his Getzen CB-50 (now G-50). I've never played on a tuba with a CF bell, but I'd be interested.

People get brasswinds with heavyweight bells to dampen material resonances, and I can't see how a CF bell would do significantly worse. The stuff's pretty strong, too -- they make car chassis out of it, after all.

i am good friends with the guy who owns daellenbach's carbon fiber. If im not mistaken, its mostly getzen, although i think the valve section is from a york. the bell has a yamaha logo on it although they didnt make it because they put it on for him... I sub in this guys brass quintet whenever he has his orchestra rehearsals and play in a wind ensemble with him. i think that the tuba sounds absolutely amazing and that he is a lucky guy to have such a wonderful horn. it projects well and the bell does actually resonate. i would trade my PT 20 for it anyday... i would just have to add a fifth valve to it.

I played one of his Carbon Fiber tubas when I was in university. At the time, Chuck was selling 1 of 3 to his former student (and my instructor) Jane Maness at Wilfrid Laurier University. Jane wanted my oppinion of the horn, and it was surprisingly resonant... but only on certain notes. It seemed that some notes saounded awesome at any dynamic level, and others not at all. The carbon was a neat idea, but for the sake of consistancy, I recommended not buying the horn and sticking with a brass bell. Also, there were certain notes that were way out of tune. The high D over top C was extremely flat. Jane didn't buy the horn, and I had to agree with her decision.

Just my experience.

I sent Chuck an email earlier about this. I don't think he would mind if I posted it here.

-----Original Message-----
From: C C Daellenbach
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:21 PM
To: Daryl Fletcher
Subject: Re: Yamaha 621

Hi Daryl
Yes in fact I am playing the 621 all the time. This was the instrument that Schilke started, and was completed by the Yamaha designers in the 80's. the design was completed around 84. The new models 'off the shelf' are remarkable--Yamaha certainly has its manufacturing techniques down cold.
Thanks for you interest. Best, chuck
____________________
On 2/1/04 5:38 PM, "Daryl Fletcher" wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> I was looking at the new pictures of the group that have been posted
> to the Canadian Brass website. It looks like you are holding a Yamaha
> 621 tuba, much like the one you had in the mid-80's. Are you playing
> the 621 on this year's tour? Have there been recent improvements or
> design changes to this model? Thanks.
>
> ---

schlepporello wrote:Does anybody know why they've sped up the tempo when they play "The Saint's Hallelujah"? I'm talking about rediculously fast.

Sounds fine to me.

Personal taste.

I would also consider the 822F to be a horn that is better designed for orchestral work. It's tone is too dark and too large for quintet, quartet or solo work. It might be able to blend well in a chamber orchestra group, but for quintet and solo, I think that the 621F is a better choice.

Don't tell that to Charlie Villarubia, who used an 822F with the Dallas Brass for many years and to great effect. The match between Charlie, the 822F, and the Dallas Brass is one of the best I know of. Further, I'm notorious for not liking very small equipment, even with my bass tubas. The Yamaha 822F was almost good enough to get me (an avowed Eb player) to consider seriously learning F fingerings and buying one. Thankfully the Willson Eb came along and solved the problem for me.

Ah Larry, if only Yamaha would make an Eb version of the 621...

Joe,

My first real Eb tuba was a YEB-321. It was a very nice horn but was absolutely lacking in the lower range. I couldn't get a really great sound past low A/Bb and the intonation for low F/E was impossible. I also played a couple of those jury-rigged dependant 5th valves on the 381 and didn't care for that setup at all. Too stuffy. Whereas a 5 valve 621 F played like a dream except that it was in F.

BTW, top action never really bothered me at all. Not being able to get exactly the sound I wanted was more of a problem.

I traded down from a Rudy 4/4 6v F to the Yamaha 621 F and couldn't be more pleased. I don't have the same dynamic range and tone color, but I'll take the technical capabilities over the Rudy any day. The low register is rock solid on the Yamaha, and the valves fly like an F-15. It is a fantastic recording horn as well. Just listening to Chuck D. and Roger Bobo recordings and one knows the horn can get the job done.

Tommy Johnson plays the 822F in the studios almost exclusively. I spoke to him at the Alan Baer recital and he asked me about the Rudy, which he had sold to me back in 1992. I told him I had sold the horn and used the money to buy the Yamaha 621F, a Yamaha Doug Yeo bass bone, and an MF Superbone. It seemed like a good trade to him, and he specifically mentioned how much he likes the little Yamaha.

Don't get me wrong. If I was still interested in auditioning for orchestral situations I would have a rotary F tuba. The sound of the piston F's just doesn't cut it when playing Berlioz. But these days a little ragga-piston is all I need.

And this lamp and this ping-pong paddle. That's all I need. Oh, I need this ashtray...

MellowSmokeMan wrote:And this lamp and this ping-pong paddle. That's all I need. Oh, I need this ashtray...

What a jerk.

Rick "not a bum" Denney

Some time has passed since this thread and i've decided i can't live with the squirrely low BBb on my 822f.i've got a new 2341 on order for quintet and dixie gigs.keeping the 822 for orchestra and solo.will update when the 2341 arrives and i test my theories if anyone is interested.Keeping the holton for the big orchesta stuff.this really is the last tuba i need....no, really honey.this Is the last tuba i'll buy.yeah,i know i've said that before but i really Mean it this time.........................................at least til the next time.....

I saw Chuck Dallaenbach's larger Yamaha once, with the CF bell, and it was not an 822CC. The 822CC and 822F share the same valveset, but other than that, they're very different animals. All the branches, bottom bow, and bell (not just diameter) are bigger on the 822CC. Chuck told me that Yamaha had made him a one-off CC horn based on the 822F bell and body. A completely different axe than the stock 822CC. I think it had a 6XX model number, but I don't remember what it was.

Many people like the 822F for quintet as well as orchestra. I used mine in Dallas Brass for 5 years, and never felt that I was too big for the group, or too small for the drumset. For the size orchestra I usually play with (4-5 basses), it's a good fit...you can sound big, but not too big. And except for some finger-hell in the low register, it's served me well on stuff that people don't normally play F on...Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, even some Shostakovich. It's a horn that works well into a microphone as well....I've played it on alot of Broadway shows, too. If you own one horn, and play in a big variety of situations, the 822F is a great choice.

I agree with Jay Bertolet...Charlie Villarubia sounds fantastic on his 822F. Another person who sounds amazing on an 822 is Don Harry. I was fortunate to sub bass trombone some in the Buffalo Phil a few years ago, and heard Don working on some recital stuff. Very inspiring.

For my money (and I heard them this January), I prefer the vintage CB sound of Chuck on his 621 CC. I'm glad he's back to playing it.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:And this lamp and this ping-pong paddle. That's all I need. Oh, I need this ashtray...

Well I don't need my dog.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:And this lamp and this ping-pong paddle. That's all I need. Oh, I need this ashtray...

Have you found your "special purpose?"

ken k

Have you found your "special purpose?"

Yes, I have...so "things are going to start happening to me now"!

MellowSmokeMan wrote: Don't get me wrong. If I was still interested in auditioning for orchestral situations I would have a rotary F tuba. The sound of the piston F's just doesn't cut it when playing Berlioz.

Pshaw!