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Orchestras need to get with the times. Nobody goes bankrupt anymore. We need to go to congress and get a bailout. I think about 5 billion will do.

Thanks to my ability to read, I put plenty of meals on my table and saved myself thousands of dollars by doing just what bloke has suggested. There is nothing like putting a timing belt on a car in the parking lot of Churches' Chicken, delivering the car to the owner, and having her suggest that your price of $100 (part included) was too high. I then told her I would uninstall it and she could have it towed to wherever she liked to have it done again. She promptly paid.

Have you noticed that the people in this world who can work in three dimensions become the most hated of all members of the society?

Nobody trusts their auto mechanic. Everyone complains about plumbers. I remember a long homily from some large pachyderm about air-conditioning technicians last summer. Even doctors get sued with regularity.

But they all make a good living, even so. Some do remarkably well given the skills required to do the job.

I worked through part of my schooling as an auto mechanic, and I made very good money. I quit my research job because it didn't pay as well. Pros learn how to do it without getting too greasy, too.

Being smart doesn't reduce the number of hours, by the way. Diagnostic time usually falls outside the flat-rate guide and gets charged by the hour. But being smart does reduce the number of do-overs, which usually don't pay at all.

I suspect one reason folks like this are hated is because the average person is helplessly dependent on them, and there are enough charlatans who prey on such helplessness to bring the whole breed down. But that dependency suggests job security.

One of the reasons people are so helpless is that they went to college to avoid having to sweat while they work. That sense of entitlement is common in the new folks I see coming up, but it's a learned response. When I was a kid, the archetype job for the uneducated was "ditch-digger", which was the standard threat issued when I showed laziness about school work. Now, it's just about any blue-collar job, even those that require considerable diagnostic, financial, and communication skills.

Rick "with several hobbies that could be made to pay if necessary" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:I remember a long homily from some large pachyderm about air-conditioning technicians last summer.

Pachyderm?!?

Sadly, I have the same concerns about my orchestra. Nobody gets paid except the imported concerto soloists and the Music Director. We are still in the red. It's really a decent orchestra that plays good rep. pretty doggone well. Can't sell enough tickets to pay the conductor. Benefactors are dropping like flies. Fortunately we have a decent library and maybe we can attract a volunteer conductor and sell enough tickets to pay for the hall. I sure do like making music with these folks.

[quote="tbn.al"]Sadly, I have the same concerns about my orchestra. Nobody gets paid except the imported concerto soloists and the Music Director. We are still in the red. It's really a decent orchestra that plays good rep. pretty doggone well. Can't sell enough tickets to pay the conductor. Benefactors are dropping like flies. Fortunately we have a decent library and maybe we can attract a volunteer conductor and sell enough tickets to pay for the hall. I sure do like making music with these folks.[/quote]

Your orchestra management doesn't understand funding. Basic rule: 1) you do not raise enough money to fund an orchestra by selling tickets... or CD's, or pancake breakfasts; 2) donors support an orchestra, find the motivation to attract donors and you can fund your orchestra. Attract donors and they will sell your tickets for you (or at least help).

If your orchestra isn't raising enough money, the fault lies with the board of directors. A good board of directors is the heart of an orchestra --

the musicians are its soul and the conductor may only be a tick attached to the posterior.

But to respond to Bloke, I agree, you friend will be holding on to playing his trumpet (or trombone or viola, etc.) until he dies or has no choice, because:

• First, people are afraid of change, it's easier to maintain the status quo than to make a change;
  Second, the music profession is addictive, like herion. It's hard, hard, hard to get that monkey off your back.

Uh-oh, I need to do some practicing, I feel the shakes coming on.

Auto mechanics are one of two things. Dumb as bricks and incompetent, or Smart and crooked as they come. A smart and honest mechanic I've never met, and I used to spend allot time around mechanics when I was into racing.

Just because a particular job is a good way to make a living doesn't mean everyone should be perfectly happy doing it. Live is too short to spend working a job you hate.

NDSPTuba wrote:Just because a particular job is a good way to make a living doesn't mean everyone should be perfectly happy doing it. Live is too short to spend working a job you hate.

I couldn't agree more! I've hated every job I've ever had (not including playing and my current job) and I hated my life because of those jobs. I made good money but it wasn't worth being miserable. I think it's a good idea for this guy to pursue new employment but mechanic might not be a good fit.

NDSPTuba wrote:Auto mechanics are one of two things. Dumb as bricks and incompetent, or Smart and crooked as they come. A smart and honest mechanic I've never met, and I used to spend allot time around mechanics when I was into racing.

No matter how much time you spent around mechanics while "racing," you've still met less than 0.5% of all auto mechanics just in the U.S. alone. Don't you think that statement was a bit sweeping, and quite a bit unfair?

As to jobs you hate...yes, I would rather be supporting myself making music but I still sell auto parts for around 75% of my income. I could easily say I hate it, but I try to remember the wisdom of Mary Poppins:

"For every job that must be done there is an element of fun. You find the fun and snap, the job's a game, and every task you undertake becomes a piece of cake (a lark, a spree, it's really plain to see)."

Todd S. Malicoate wrote: No matter how much time you spent around mechanics while "racing," you've still met less than 0.5% of all auto mechanics just in the U.S. alone. Don't you think that statement was a bit sweeping, and quite a bit unfair?

Yes, it was definitely sweeping and unfair. But it is extremely hard to be fair when one is over generalizing.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote: As to jobs you hate...yes, I would rather be supporting myself making music but I still sell auto parts for around 75% of my income. I could easily say I hate it, but I try to remember the wisdom of Mary Poppins:

"For every job that must be done there is an element of fun. You find the fun and snap, the job's a game, and every task you undertake becomes a piece of cake (a lark, a spree, it's really plain to see)."

Wise words, and I have a long history of not being able to see things quite so rosy. Maybe I'd be better at it now that I have some age to me. I'd really rather not find out, though.

I can't remember every word of a conversation I had a day ago.
I don't know how bloke can.





Perhaps my poor memory portends failure in the economy. (to make this post relevant to the OPs topic)

k001k47 wrote:I can't remember every word of a conversation I had a day ago.
I don't know how bloke can.

Maybe it's because the subject is important to him.

Rick "who remembers, in great detail, what he's motivated to remember" Denney

NDSPTuba wrote:Yes, it was definitely sweeping and unfair. But it is extremely hard to be fair when one is over generalizing.

Hmmm. That would be the point.

Wise words, and I have a long history of not being able to see things quite so rosy. Maybe I'd be better at it now that I have some age to me. I'd really rather not find out, though.

I doubt that Oscar Hammerstein was intending great wisdom, but there are some wise principles revealed. They are: 1.) there are jobs out there that nobody wants, but that still must be done, ergo 2.) someone is going to have to do them, and so 3.) there must be a way to at least derive satisfaction from any given job.

Like losing weight or quitting smoking, it starts with a decision, backed up by commitment to that decision.

I've had job situations that I hated a large percentage of the time. I've never had a job situation that I didn't hate at least some of the time, nor have I had one that I hated all the time. (There is, by the way, exactly zero correlation between my enjoyment of a given job situation and it's pay or prestige.) The trick is seeing past the unpleasant bits. That's a decision we make--to determine that our intellect will rule our feelings and not the other way around. Yes, that's part of growing up (or should be). Usually, when I hate my work, it's because of my own attitude about it, even though I'm pretty good at blaming the situation around me.

Rick "warning against an entitlement mentality" Denney

bloke wrote:

k001k47 wrote:I can't remember every word of a conversation I had a day ago.
I don't know how bloke can.





Perhaps my poor memory portends failure in the economy. (to make this post relevant to the OPs topic)

Are you implying that I invented the conversation from whole cloth? P.M. me if you want the name and email of the person (a principal player in a ROPA orchestra). He will verify that the conversation took place. I was trying to not pull other people's names into a discussion (here) who would not wish to be discussed.

]

I was implying that you have better memory than I.

Rick Denney wrote:

k001k47 wrote:I can't remember every word of a conversation I had a day ago.
I don't know how bloke can.

Maybe it's because the subject is important to him.

Rick "who remembers, in great detail, what he's motivated to remember" Denney

I can't even remember thing important to me!

there's always beer...(insert pics of buxom german beer drinkers)

bloke wrote: My Mom was blessed with good looks

Shame she didn't pass them on to all of her kids.

Someone had to say it

an interesting topic. A few thoughts....1) there are always folks who really just feel like complaining sometimes.
2) I know an auto mechanic who is both smart, and honest (and who is the one that works on our cars).
3) A healthy non-profit arts organization does not rely on individual concert/event ticket sales for regular operating budget. Donations, sponsors, and season tickets support the regular budget.
4) All jobs are jobs at some point, and the question is 'what is intollerable in a work situation?' For me, I know I hate sales so I stay away from that stuff. Doesn't mean I havn't had to do my share of marketing presentations, proposals and such.
5) The car thing....I think that gas cars are going to be around for a long time to come, but that folks who turn cars over (new one every two years, or whatever) are still going to do that and the folks who hold them and repair them will continue to do that. That said, our annual mileage has gone from about 25K for two drivers to about 6K for two drivers, which extends the useful life of a car quite a bit. and the useful life of the driver who rides his bike to work, hence getting some exercise.

Just self-indulgent rambling (isn't that the whole point of a BBS?), but . . .

When I was in my late teens, several adults in my life with perspectives similar to Bloke's tried to talk to me about my desire to pursue music as a career, and to convince me to consider alternatives. I was young and stubborn, and didn't listen to those arguments at all.

If I had listened more carefully, I could have avoided some extremely difficult years, and could have avoided wasting a lot of time and money. (Funny how the older you get, the more value you see in having had a few extra years of contribution toward a mortgage, retirement, etc. Those things just didn't seem that important when I was younger, single, with no kids.)

But, if I had avoided those difficult years, I wouldn't be the person I am today. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. I'll probably never really know.

My difficult years were in extremely good economic times, so I never had a situation where I was not able to land on my feet well enough to pay the bills and get by. If I were facing those difficult years in current economic conditions, things could be very different.

Obviously, you have a good grasp of the mechanical. Why not (since this orchestra orients most of its services and rehearsals towards the evenings) give up your students and get a day-job as an apprentice auto mechanic?"

I appreciate the thrust of Bloke's suggestion to this individual to become trained in a more economically secure type of skill/career. There is the application, however. Let's not forget the possible conflict of levels of education, values, tastes, ways of communicating, etc. between a shop full of auto mechanics and said professional musician/private teacher trying to learn the trade. I have much life experience in this situation; just replace auto shop with cabinet/furniture shop and professional musician/private teacher with over-degree-ed free-lance tuba player/teacher. Those were a long ten years to spend with basically high school (or less) educated workers and bosses who have a different psychology about most things and can't understand why 'with your college education you'd want to try to do something like this'.