TubeNet

Hi all,

The Dalyan Phonic BB Tuba is optically an exact copy of the Miraphone 191 BB Tuba. Who can tell me how the Dalyan Phonic compares to the Miraphone 191 (intonation/sound/response)? I know the Miraphone but can not afford it. They are hard to get second hand over here, but even then they are out of my price range. I know a Dalyan that is in my price range, but it’s to far away to have an unbiased drive over there and try it. So please make me biased, so I can judge if it’s worth to take the (long) drive.

Regards,
Patrick

Is that the Tuba Exchange TE 191 5-valve? Has anyone played that horn??

Bob1062 wrote:I remember the Dalyan new being about US$5500ish when the 191 was 6000. Is this still the case?
I've seen quite a few 191's under US$4000, and at least one for 3000 (very clean too!).
Tuba exchange has a 4 valve and 5 valve 191 copy.

Patrick, didn't you just recently get a big Alex Bb?

Yep, got the Alex but needs to much work (money) to make it decent. The Dalyan Phonic (new) goes for 1700Euro, and if it's at least almost like the Mira then I'm thinking of getting that one.

Are new Dalyans still available? I thought distributorship here had ended but, if not, would definitely be interested in taking a look at a Dalyan 191 copy.

steve_decker wrote:Are new Dalyans still available? I thought distributorship here had ended but, if not, would definitely be interested in taking a look at a Dalyan 191 copy.

This one is in Germany. I don't know if this Dalyan Phonic (Mira 191 copy) is still in production. This one is maybe still not sold (for some reason). It's new but has small lacquer damage (hopefully that explains the price). An owner of a music shop which sells the Dalyan Tubas told me that the lacquer of the Dalyans is of poor quality anyway.

From my experience with Dalyans, and I played one for about a month, is thus:

Very similar to Miraphone.
Not as consistent in quality as a Miraphone.
Sound is not as consistent as a Miraphone.
Some models are a very good bargain. Others are not(IMHO).
Dalyan could be said to be a Miraphone "Wannabee."

I spent time with the CC Dalyan. I don't remember what this model was called, however it was quite similar to my 186 CC Miraphone. I liked it, but as I have indicated above, not as much as my Miraphone. Did I say I like my Miraphone? I guess I did, since I said I liked the Dalyan, but not as much as the Miraphone.

My advise would be to give it a try. It could be worth your while.

bloke wrote:I've never seen a "Dalyan" 191...only an *ALLORA* 191.

...

It played OK...The Catch-22 is that I've *never* played a *Miraphone* 191.

I've played an Allora 191 side-by-side with a Miraphone 191. They were not on the same planet. The Miraphone was far more resonant with a noticeably more open sound, clearly noticeable by my non-musician sister and her bassoonist daughter. That is based on one example of each, and I have no idea what issues may have been lurking with that Allora. It was not on display, and without any supervision from Roger I dug it out of its case where it was hiding. It may have been hidden because it had issues that needed to be resolved.

I have also played one other imitation of a 191, and similarly found it lacking in resonance. The resonance issue may have to do with solder blobs, or tension in the assembly--whatever.

Why not take a chance on that $1600 Schiller copy of a Hirsbrunner BBb perennially offered on eBay?

Why don't you? If it works out, then you'll be able to sell it for a profit, because it will be play-tested by a trustworthy dealer.

Rick "putting a bloke's money where his mouth is" Denney

Thanks for the input so far. To bad no one has experience with the Dalyan Phonic. I'm not very convinced to spend a day traveling to try it

bloke wrote: As a matter-of-fact, I bought a nice Chinese tuba off of eBay about four days ago, spent about an hour with the valves, and sold it locally for about $600 more than I paid. Curiously, (unlike the particular model it copied) the 5th partial on that Chinese tuba was *not* flat.

I checked out that Schiller (HB copy) and it looked like a very solid 4/4 horn from the pictures. Of course pictures tell little about how a horn plays. They have a double rotor bass trombone (King copy?) that looks interesting for the money - one could probably spend as much on a "Moneyette" tuba mouthpiece.

JethroSandwich wrote:I just have to know how it sounds before I spend 3k on something like a used Yamaha 641.

If you can spend $3K, then I hope you can do better than a used 641. Like a Miraphone 186, Meinl-Weston Model 25, VMI 2301, any of the old B&S/VMI PT-1 variants, all of which would be a superior choice to the 641, at least for me.

Rick "who has played a competent Dalyan Prague, but not a copy of the 191" Denney

JethroSandwich wrote:Actually I CAN'T spend 3k, I can barely spend 2. I grew up playing MWs and, to be honest, I find the 186 overpriced. The only 186 I can afford is the one on Ebay that looks to have been run over by a garbage truck.

If you know of a decent 186 for sale for around 2k, please hip me to it. I would be most grateful and speak kindly of you on many occasions.

I have just gotten an 'around $2K 186" by getting a $1300 186 off daBay that was in reasonable condition and having the repairs done it needed. In this case, it played fine but the rotors and mouthpipe needed attention. Dan O. is doing the rotors and putting on a Miraphone mouthpipe out of the Allied catalog and a couple of other small repairs/ The total after repairs will come in at about $22-2300. I think I got really lucky with my horn because the prices on fixer 186s has just gotten stupid.

Baltimore Brass had a decent 186 for $2100 last month. Get your money together and wait. Call around a little bit and see what's available. Someplace like Dillon's who have a lot of horns go through may have taken a 186 in on trade that they were planning on making perfect and selling for $3.5-4K but might be willing to make whatever little repairs it needs to make it play well and sell it to you to move it fast. You never know.

Do let us know what the ChinaBruner plays like.

steve_decker wrote:Are new Dalyans still available? I thought distributorship here had ended but, if not, would definitely be interested in taking a look at a Dalyan 191 copy.

I thought the same thing but I ran up on the website the other day. Apparently Orphesus music is till active with Dalyan tubas but a lot more quiet than they used to be. It's http://www.dalyantubas.com" target="_blank

bloke wrote: p.m. me about the various Chinese models the guy offers. I'm sure you'll blow through whatever the guy has there.

Or share with the group... inquiring minds want to know!

JethroSandwich wrote:Besides, we Minnesotans like to drive to Wisconsin every so often to remind ourselves just how normal we are. *ducking cheese throwers*

That reminds me of a funny story...
About ten years ago my wife (from the very south tip of Georgia) and I drove from TN to MN to check out the RedWing instrument repair program. We stopped at a gas station in Wisconsin, near the Minnesota border. I was sooo embarrassed when my wife blurted out to the clerk "Oh, my God, you sound just like Fargo!"

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "who has played a competent Dalyan Prague, but not a copy of the 191" Denney

I have played a couple of Dalyan Pragues as well and they seem to be a good horns, I liked them both!

The Sanders "Custom" that they sell at Custom Muisic is a 191 copy as well. I owned one for a couple years and it plays pretty well. I still sit next to it every Tuesday night at rehearsals and the guy I sold it to has a Doctorate in Music and he is very happy with it. The only problem with the early Chinese horns is the lacquer. It seems to be water based and where ever you hold you skin to the lacquor, the moisture in the skin makes the lacquer get soft, discolor and wear badly.

http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/sndrscustom.html

JethroSandwich wrote:<cut> I have zero buyer's remorse.

More to come-I need to go dig out my etude books!

Good to hear. When you get your lip back in shape, give us a report. If you are happy with your purchase, that can only be a good thing.

JethroSandwich wrote:I am the proud owner of a "Schillbrunner"!

pictures? perhaps on a new thread.