TubeNet

was wondering if anyone out there could help me be a better tuba player? was hoping someone could recomend some books that i could get that would help my playing. i was a euphonium player but always wanted to be a tuba player and for the past 5 years have been playing in community bands, brass choirs, and a youth orch. since i was a euphonium player my upper register is good but my low really sucks. can not get pedal tones and have a hard time getting alot of volume for my lower register. oh and i am playing an olds 3 valve for now. but am working on getting a different tuba. any ideas? thanks

Lessons are often far better than books for the help you are looking for. I would suggest seeking out a local professional/professor. Range issues and their solutions are often covered in many books, but the author often has a way of describing it that doesn't always communicate the methodology correctly. People here on toobnet will also post some valid solutions, but they might not translate well for you. In your case, $100 spent towards some lessons would be better than $1000 spent in books, it would seem.

Matthew is right on the money. I can commiserate, because I came to the tuba from playing euphonium, but reading books is no substitute for having an actual tuba player hear you, watch what you're doing and give you feedback.

For me, a lot of it had to do with jaw placement and working pedals when my fellow students were straining to play what I took for granted, but that was me. There was no book telling me how to go down, not up. You need someone to LISTEN, WATCH, AND POINT YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

By the way, based on an evaluation, a good teacher may be able to recommend exactly which books and techniques would be the most help to you and save you both time and money.

Music is an aural art, and there is no substitute for ears, regardless of how good your reading comprehension.

I agree completely with the private lessons advice, but if you must have a book, then I highly recommend Low Etudes For Tuba by Phil Snedecor. What makes this book unique is that its etudes are written specifically for low octave and pedal playing. It provides excellent material for practicing.

TubaCoopa wrote:I agree completely with the private lessons advice, but if you must have a book, then I highly recommend Low Etudes For Tuba by Phil Snedecor. What makes this book unique is that its etudes are written specifically for low octave and pedal playing. It provides excellent material for practicing.

I agree that this book is an excellent tool for a player looking to develop their low register, but the OP seems to lack ability in this area. If I gave this book to a developing student with nothing other than a fingering chart (and remember the OP has a 3-valve horn, so false tones need to be employed), they would more than likely get frustrated and never play them, and probably return to the euphonium. Some folks can just "figure it out". I started on trumpet, and switched to tuba in 9th grade. By the end of high school, I had figured out how to get a significant range on the tuba with a few lessons thrown in the mix. However, I had some crazy shifts that I had to undo after entering college. That's why I would recommend some lessons. I was using some wacky shifts that really inhibited transitions across registers. Luckily I got some quality advice (from a fellow student at the school) and that fixed the problem. That fellow student probably charges $75-$100 per hour for lessons to non-university students now.

Like windshieldbug nicely articulates, music is an aural skill, and needs aural in addition to tactile and visual observation.

I am not debating you, TubaCoopa, merely reiterating the idea that a book is nearly useless without quality instruction.

I also agree that lessons would be money well spent. An alternative, (somewhat) easier book of etudes that might help with the development of low register (especially if it is a problem area) that I have found beneficial is the Grigoriev 78 Studies published by Robert King. Good luck!

Chris Bettler

Roger Lewis has some good posts that address range and what your lips have to do.

In my lingo, your lip position is more "rolled out" for the low register and more "rolled in" for the high register. I went from horn (which I still play) to tuba, and my low register just wasn't there because my lips were too tight. I had to "blast" on the low register (not pretty but it forces the lips to flap) for a few months before I loosened up enough to play it. Lip position has to change over the range....if you learn to gliss the mouthpiece without a tone break over the entire range, from pedal-whatever on up, you'll avoid a host of problems.

Rolled out is sort of like a super-pucker; that is, stick your lips way out to get the basic idea, so that when you buzz them the moist red parts are vibrating against each other. Rolled in is the opposite, where in the extreme you would have a reverse pucker, with no red showing at all, and the buzz occurring almost on the white.

These are concepts, not playing directions. Like the guys said, try to find a teacher.

MA

bigpapajon wrote:

brasshospital wrote:i am playing an olds 3 valve for now. but am working on getting a different tuba.

Stick with the Olds...they're good horns. Master that first.

I disagree-sort of.

You will eventually need a better horn. Get one when you are not too financially stressed by the acquisition.

And get some lessons.

A wish worth being shared in 2009!

Klaus

Dear TubeNet Community:

When I first started playing tuba, and still have a way to go, I played on a 1960's Besson Stratford Upright 3-Valve. I found it hard to play, a bit uncomfortable, and I just did not like it. I quickly had to find a solution, since the college had no others (this was a community college, and was unwilling to purchase any), so I had to purchase my own. I decided to purchase the best I could afford. It was a VMI 2103 BB-Flat with rotary valves. I still own it and play it regularly. At the time, these horns could be purchased for less than $5K. Now they are almost $6K new. I still do not regret this purchase. This horn with much practice and many lessons helped me get to playing much faster.

Secondly, if money is tight, look for something used like a Miraphone 186 or something similar, there are many of these out there. They are reasonable, sound really good, play in tune, and guys like the Village Tinker, Bloke, and others could guide you on where to look or assist in some way.

Finally, take as many lessons as you can from the best player/teacher you can afford, and practice, practice, and practice. To quote my friend Roger Lewis, "Practice Smart". May you and all in the TubeNet community have a blessed New Year!

Humbly Yours,

Bavarian Fanfare

G'day Brasshospital

I went back to playing BBb tuba two years ago after a twenty year break.
I found that it just plain straight out took a long time to get my low register back. It slowly gets better and better and there's no way to rush it.

As far as I can see the biggest difference between tuba and other brass instruments is that you need to open your throat and jaw further for tuba and blow a larger quantity of air at slower speed - this applies to the midrange as much as the low range but maybe not quite as much in the high range. Feed the air into the instrument slowly instead of forcing it in. I've found that when I open my mouth right up and think HAAAAA rather than tee or doo or whatever I can get a bigger, nicer sound without blowing as hard. MaryAnn's description in this thread is very good.

I think mouthpiece practice and a systematic chop building routine are very important and also deep breathing exercises - getting your body used to taking in as much air as possible and blowing it out in a slow relaxed manner.
I've found practicing a wide range of exercises to be better than hammering the one thing - you need to attack the thing from different angles. Every exercise seems to help everything else. Mixed interval slurring helps lip slurring and vice versa - legato and staccato tonguing at different speeds help each other AND breath support and tone production in general. Practicing scales and arpeggios helps with getting the notes to come out without dramas in slow tunes - you just have more command over the instrument.

Slow slurred arpeggios over your whole range are good for a whole lot of things. If your playing say Eb arpeggio but can't play a low Eb, don't start at the next octave - start on low G and go up to what ever you can reach whether it be a G, Bb or Eb in whatever octave. (Does that make sense?)

I find Remington style long notes really good, also the basic crescendo, diminuendo exercise. (Play a sixteen beat note at crotchet equals sixty - start as soft as you can play, crescendo over four beats to the loudest you can play and then diminuendo over the next eight beats to as soft as you can play.)

One of the best things which has helped my playing is playing any hymn tune - doesn't matter whether it's the melody or the base line - and play it in a whole lot of different octaves and keys and play it slowly - under sixty beats a minute. If your after low register you could just go down a semitone every time. This exercise is very beneficial when you play it as loud as humanly possible but still with a beautiful open sound i.e. like a normal hymn only turned up really LOUD. When I started doing this the sound would choke and stop at a certain point until I learnt how to open my jaw WIDE. You jaw and mouth should actually be fairly relaxed during all this - the main thing is the air - the embouchure just goes along for the ride. The test of this in the real world is to go along to community band practice and SWALLOW the whole band in the loud bits instead of trying to cut through. Doing this is very good for you. (The rest of the band may complain).

I don't have a teacher although I desperately need one but these are the main things I've found while battling along by myself.

I hope this is of some help.

Regards

Gerard

i thank you all for your input. to comment about the olds tuba. i actually repair instruments and have been given a miraphone and a meinl weston as payment for some repairs. (do not know exact models yet, since i have not had a chance to look at them) and i was given a conn 36J which i can not wait to play (problems with the fourth valve). so i am sure i am going to upgrade from the olds to one these tubas.
as for a teacher or professional maybe i could get some help in finding one that is not to expensive. money is tight but i would really like to be a better player and i agree with all of you about getting a teacher. i just thought that maybe there were some books or etudes i could play that would help until i got the chance and the money to start lessons. i am about 1/2 hour from williamstown mass and about an hour from albany. so if anyone has any leads on a teacher that would be great.
thanks again for all your help and hope everyone had a very merry xmas and a happy new year.

If you are fairly competent in repair work, I would suggest calling some of the local colleges and seeing if you can strike some sort of barter agreement. You might be able to get some lessons in exchange for a good chemical clean, since those run three figures anymore. If the professors aren't into the barter situation, I'm sure you might be able to find a decent undergrad or graduate level tuba player who has some decent pedagogy background who can get you aimed in the right direction. Again, if I were back in college and somebody offered a thorough chem clean in exchange for lessons, I would oblige.

Sometimes you don't need currency to get what you want. Leverage what you have.

that would do the trick. but if i remeber correctly the only colleges in my area do not have a music program. but thanks for the suggestion. i didn't think of that so i will give them a call and find out. and i would like to think i am pretty good at what i do (even though i have only been at it for a few years now, but i have the desire to be better). again really thanks for all the help you all are giving me.