TubeNet

Hello and welcome to TubeNet!

In regards to piston vs. rotary, the ultimate deciding factor is personal. There are plenty of successes on both sides, and they are both used today because they both "work", so it's entirely up to you.

One point that I can come up with:

Pistons require more frequent routine maintenance (lubrication), but are easier to take apart to do so. Rotary system take some know-how to disassembly for maintenance, but that is not as regular as with pistons.

In the valve choice, I think it would actually be more pertinent to know from where you getting the horn and who made it because there are very good examples of both systems, but there are also bad examples of both.

For the playing situations you described, I think a nice 4/4 horn would be a very good candidate. Everyone and their mother loves the classic Miraphone 186!

Good luck on the hunt!

186

(I've used mine for all the above and then some, and will continue to do so)

This is definitely a personal thing. For example, I am not a fan of the 186 or the 188 nor am I a huge fan of rotary valved tubas in general. I grew up playing a Yamaha rotary 4/4 tuba in middle school and a MW 25 and a VMI 3301. I LOVED the VMI but wasn't too thrilled about the Yami or MW. Since I like the VMI so much I ended up purchasing a B&S PT20-PS. The horns are very similar to me. What are you playing on right now? I would suggest something similar to the instrument your on now if you like it. Hope this helped!

-CT

The Jackson wrote:Everyone and their mother loves the classic Miraphone 186!

Strange enough, I have twice tried Miraphone (including a 186) and really expected to like, but they just do not do it for me with their (for me) rather bland sound. Just shows how important is personal taste and trying a tuba first.

Another factor to consider in piston v rotor is that the latter is generally better if you suffer from any sort of muscular problem as less movement and more adjustible. However at the same time many seem to prefer the direct feel of pistons. For me it is the lower maintenance and (in my experience) greater reliability of rotors that was the deciding factor.

Neptune wrote: Strange enough, I have twice tried Miraphone (including a 186) and really expected to like, but they just do not do it for me with their (for me) rather bland sound. Just shows how important is personal taste and trying a tuba first.

I have to somewhat agree with the newer generations. Now, if you find an older 186 with the thinner metal and 16.5" bell, that is a whole different story!

I like pistons, but I have tubas I love that have rotary valves.

When you are looking for an instrument, there are lots of issues to address, including sound, intonation, response, evenness of scale, and ergonomics. There, there's price. With all these considerations, being too picky about valves might well require a compromise on one of those other issues. Thus, it's probably best to find the best instrument for you and take the valves that come with it.

That said, piston valves give me a more crisp note change in slurred runs, and my limited technique is a bit less limited using them. In my experience, both require frequent playing OR frequent maintenance. Horns that are played every day seem to be happy with a fresh charge of oil at the start of each session or two. The tubas that I come back to after a month usually need to be cleaned more often than the tubas that I play frequently, and this is irrespective of valve type.

Rotary valves have more linkage and in my fingers often have a slightly mushier feel as a result, even when the linkage is tip-top. But they are less likely to get sticky without warning (though this happens with any of my tubas only very rarely). And pistons do usually require more finger spread and a longer travel, so for people with very small hands, rotary valves are often easier to modify to their needs.

Of course, you are right that this is a frequent topic on Tubenet though it hasn't been hashed through all that recently. A search on "vs." is probably sufficient to find lots of material on the subject in the archives, and you can read up on that other great topic, lacquer vs. silver plate (which is even less consequential except for cosmetics).

One final thought: There are some specific models that seem to be preferable in one version or the other. For example, I prefer the sound of the WIllson 3200R rotary F tuba to the 3200 piston version, though most folks seem to go the other way. And many that I've heard prefer the rotary Neptune to the piston version on the basis of intonation. These differences aren't cause directly by the valves, but rather by the changes in instrument configuration necessitated by the choice of valves.

Rick "who uses both rotary and piston F tubas and rotary and piston Bb tubas" Denney

bloke wrote:I would have to say that my observation is that quite a large percentage of tuba players who own more than one tuba own tubas of both configurations, and purchased them individually on playing characteristics rather than any mechanical considerations.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Oh, yeah -- I agree with the comment about the older 186 bells. The new 17 3/4 inch bell is a little to "vanilla" for me.

iiipopes wrote:....
Oh, yeah -- I agree with the comment about the older 186 bells. The new 17 3/4 inch bell is a little to "vanilla" for me.

And besides.... those 17 3/4" bells won't fit in the old-style cases, either!

I think a few of us here would agree that it would help if you could go to something like tuba-conference later this month. You would see a lot of different horns (piston & rotor) and be able to try both. I have always been a fan of rotors but played on a piston horn a while back and just loved the way it played and the way it fit my hand(somewhat large). Good luck.

TubaCRNA wrote:You are all very correct in saying that nothing beats hands on - regardless of the instrument type. With my work and call schedule (health care) 2/3 of my year is shot and it has always been hard to get away. Perhaps if one of you is aware of any tuba goings on near Kansas in the next few months? Thanks again for all your input!

http://www.iteaonline.org/2008/conferen ... 08_reg.php" target="_blank