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In your opinion, what does the term "playing in the center of a pitch" mean to you?

In what aspects of playing does it manifest itself?

*Intonation?
*Tone?
*Clarity?

What causes a player to not play in the center?

*Inadequate muscle control?
*Improper embouchure?
*Breath support issues?

I know what I think, but what do you guys think?

adam0408 wrote:In your opinion, what does the term "playing in the center of a pitch" mean to you?

In what aspects of playing does it manifest itself?

*Intonation?
*Tone?
*Clarity?

What causes a player to not play in the center?

*Inadequate muscle control?
*Improper embouchure?
*Breath support issues?

I know what I think, but what do you guys think?

For me, it means buzzing at a pitch that creates the full resonance of the instrument. When I hear all the overtones line up and the sound achieve its full richness (for a given buzz quality: see below), then that's the center of the pitch for the instrument on that note. So: Tone. But I think that "center of the resonance" is more accurate than "center of the pitch" when describing this phenomenon.

It can run against good intonation, if the instrument has problems in that regard (and they all do to some extent). If you buzz at the pitch needed for good intonation, and it is not at the center of resonance for the instrument, the tone will suffer. Some tubas are more sensitive to this than others, owing to a more narrow-banded resonance. The instruments with broad-banded resonance may require more control, but they also provide more flexibility.

If a tuba is not fully resonant at the proper buzz frequency, then that's the instrument's fault and not the player's, though the best players may have a good enough buzz to overcome the worst effects. The poorest players buzz whatever pitch comes out, and that pitch may neither line up with the ensemble or with the instrument. Plus, their buzz has a lot of noise elements and insufficient energy at the buzz frequency, which undermines the tone even when on pitch. Better players can buzz pitches that get a good sound. Better players still manage the instrument such that the correct buzz frequency gets the best resonance. Good management includes selecting the right instrument, adjusting slides as necessary, and using alternate frequencies as necessary. Some players are able to make an out-of-tune instrument play on pitch and sound pretty good, but they are putting such a good buzz into the mouthpiece that the resulting tone is pretty good even after the non-resonant instrument does its damage. They would get better results still if they were playing in the center of the resonance by whatever means.

A player with poor wind or a weak embouchure (or both) may never test the resonance of the instrument in the first place. Before finding the buzz frequency that resonates, the buzz itself must have sufficient energy in it to excite all those overtones even when on pitch. And the buzz must be clean enough so that noise elements don't undermine the energy at the proper frequency, or overload the instruments ability to filter out those noise elements in the buzz.

Rick "still learning to put a good enough buzz into the instrument for this to be an issue" Denney

Good topic. This is a phenomenon that too many players don't think about...rather, they simply push down the correct buttons or paddles and buzz, not understanding why a certain pitch results.

Something I like to do as an exercise may help to OP understand the "center" a bit better. Find a good practice area with plenty of resonance. Pick a note in the comfortable middle register and sustain while slightly moving the pitch up and down slowly. Breath and start over whenever necessary. Listen carefully to the upper overtones, and find where they sound the best (most present)...this is a listening skill that may take some time to develop. Once you find that spot where the upper overtones really ring, you have likely found the "center" of that pitch.

DO NOT USE A TUNER WHEN DOING THIS EXERCISE!!! The point is not to center the needle on the tuner, but rather to memorize what it "feels like" to center or "slot" the note for maximum resonance. As Rick correctly pointed out, it takes a strong, advanced tuba embouchure to gain any benefits from this exercise. If you find that you can't really find the center of a pitch in this way, focus your efforts toward strength training in the embouchure muscles (or, simply, lots of face time and practice).

I will postulate that this sort of training is one of the things that helps to separate the truly outstanding players from the just really good ones. I hope some of those outstanding players who post here will also add their thoughts on the subject.

bloke wrote:It means playing the pitch where the *tuba* wants to play it, rather than forcing the pitch (via lips/air) where the *player* wants it to be.

To do this *and* to play "in tune" (by the definition above) nearly always requires some mechanical manipulation.

That's why I like a mouthpiece/horn combination that has moderate slotting: I just don't like to move slides that much. Two extremes: With a little Eb I borrowed for one parade gig a couple of years ago, a Wick 3 and anything in the low register was almost valve optional. When I tried a Loud LM-7 through my 186, the slots were so tight I was pulling and pushing as much as a trombone player.

Yes, the concepts of "slotting" and "center of pitch" are inextricably related, as in "center of pitch" is where the horn wants to play a given note, and "slotting" is the relative size of the "window" across which the tuba wants to play the given note.

In a different context, "center of pitch" is also used to describe the mean pitch as produced by a section of performers, playing the same note, in relative tuning terms.

bloke wrote:It means playing the pitch where the *tuba* wants to play it, rather than forcing the pitch (via lips/air) where the *player* wants it to be.

To do this *and* to play "in tune" (by the definition above) nearly always requires some mechanical manipulation.

I suppose. As a player learns how to play "in the center of the pitch", their problems (again, as outlined above) have just begun.

In addition, nearly all brass instruments on all pitches tend to "go sharp" as the dynamic level greatly increases, and "go flat" as the dynamic level greatly decreases. Curiously, when low-end dynamic levels are pushed to the limit, pitch often tends to rise again.

Playing above pitch is a far more common sin (at all experience levels of playing) than playing below pitch. That is surely where the expression, "better sharp than out-of-tune" originated.

I agree completely.

Also, I will arbitrarily throw some theories in here. A trombone player I know told me people tend to play sharp because its easier to hear themselves that way. I have recently developed this annoying tendency (or just better ears) and have been trying to kill it.

And personally, I think the reason that pitches go sharp on the extreme soft volumes is because the player tends to lose control over the pitch because of decreased airflow and then overcompensates with too much embouchure tension, causing the pitch to waver on the sharp side. Just a theory there.

I always heard teachers harping about the center of the notes and never really understood fully what it meant until I tried playing CC tuba. My mind was thinking Bb, my embouchure was buzzing it, and none of my fingers were pushed down but a C was coming out. A very odd feeling (and sound) indeed.

When I play with my Schlipf mute, it is very clear and easy to tell when I'm playing centered vs. uncentered. I;m not sure if other mutes give this same effect, but it's been an effective tool for me.

For me, "centering", "slotting", and the like fall under the "elephant test" for me -- I can't really describe it, but I know it when I see (feel/play) it. But...I guess that's why I'm not the one teaching other people to play.

"Playing in the center of a pitch," I think, manifests itself in all three of those aspects. The way I see it, playing in the center of a pitch means aiming for the best intonation while maintaining great tone and clarity. You can always tell when this happens due to how resonant the sound is. In order to do this efficiently, you will probably have to pull a slide or two every now and then. As for what causes a player to not play in the center, (I say this from recent personal experiences...) it seems to be a combination of inadequate, fine-tuning muscle control and inadequate breathing efficiency/air flow. What I've learned to do to combat this (after posting a topic loosely based on this subject and reading all of the reply's and asking my teacher ) is the use of breathing exercises multiple times a week and buzzing along with a piano, teachers, colleagues, etc... on either the mouthpiece or a burp before playing those pitches on the horn. Then adjust the slides if necessary to be in tune with what you hear either aurally or in your head.

You've gotten some great responses to this question. Mine doesn't carry nearly as much merit as the aforesaid responses, but I still felt I should "throw my two cents in" in case those two cents need revision.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Good topic. This is a phenomenon that too many players don't think about...rather, they simply push down the correct buttons or paddles and buzz, not understanding why a certain pitch results.

I heard that, man! That was the hardest thing I've ever had/am having to learn.