TubeNet

So, I've decided (for a number of reasons) to build an BIG Eb helicon. I know that I want it to have a 19"-22" bell (probably detachable), a body that does not go all the way around (like an Eb souzy) and rotary valves. I've done a few souzy to heli bell conversions and 3 to 4 piston conversions but I've never tried to fit a rotary valve set or what will probably be a BBb sousaphone bell stack to and Eb sousaphone. Have any of you ever tried this? Any other ideas?

Your project kind of reminds me of cutting a BBb helicon to Eb. It would be hard to match the tapers of the parts ibvolve.

If you want an instrument intended for rotors, there still might be some Russian Eb helicons out there. Some had huge funnel bells with almost no flare. I only have seen 3 valve versions, but addiing a 4th valve might be possible.

6 or 8 years ago German eBay was flooded with Russian/Ukrainian brasses bought from surplus stock from when the Red Army retired from the former GDR. I see these instruments less often now. I sort of regret not buying some of them. The quality wasn’t spectacular, but especially some of the smaller brasses displayed design concepts rarely seen on Western European instruments. And they were cheap back then.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

imperialbari wrote:If you want an instrument intended for rotors, there still might be some Russian Eb helicons out there. Some had huge funnel bells with almost no flare. I only have seen 3 valve versions, but addiing a 4th valve might be possible.

6 or 8 years ago German eBay was flooded with Russian/Ukrainian brasses bought from surplus stock from when the Red Army retired from the former GDR. I see these instruments less often now. I sort of regret not buying some of them. The quality wasn’t spectacular, but especially some of the smaller brasses displayed design concepts rarely seen on Western European instruments. And they were cheap back then.

I'll keep an eye out for those horns. A horn like that would make a great project for the right price.

I've also been on the prowl for a larger Eb heli with a trashed valve section or in generally poor condition. It might be easier to add a bigger bell and a rotor section to something like that.

I have always had an idea, in the back of my mind, that I'd like to try an Eb sousaphone conversion to an F helicon. I've actually been holding on to a tiny Conn Eb tuba bell for just this reason. Just changing the bell should take that sucker halfway up in pitch.
It would take finding the right body, of course, and a good 4 valve piston set to slap on it.

If it worked, it might make a very cool solo instrument.

Frank Ortega

Frank Ortega wrote:I have always had an idea, in the back of my mind, that I'd like to try an Eb sousaphone conversion to an F helicon. I've actually been holding on to a tiny Conn Eb tuba bell for just this reason. Just changing the bell should take that sucker halfway up in pitch.
It would take finding the right body, of course, and a good 4 valve piston set to slap on it.

If it worked, it might make a very cool solo instrument.

Frank Ortega

Good idea! That sound like a neat project.

I actually have a lead on a Conn 26K (Eb) Sousa that's missing a bunch of parts. The plan might be to add a long bell, remove the false branch and *try to* bend the 2nd branch up toward the bell to make it look more like the European style horns. I'm still looking for a 4 rotor section for it. I was also thinking of only using the 1st and part of the 2nd branch and then add part of a traditional tuba bugle. If it works out it might look like one of those old Czec horns.

The Czec horn


The European horn

If you want an Eb helicon project, get this:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30981" target="_blank

Then find an salvage .687/.689 valve block if you don't think you can find valves to fit the existing block, whether King or any other brand really doesn't matter, find a bell that will graft onto the bell throat ferrule, and you're basically in business.

Mike-ICR wrote: The European horn

It might not be obvious from the photo, but for me, that helicon is pretty comfortable to play. In contrast to your older example - imagine trying to work all 4 valves from that angle. I am evidently more flexible of hand and wrist than some people, so I can't guarantee that the Cerveny F design will work for everyone, but I know anything more cramped will not work for some - that's how I came to also have the Amati/Cerveny Eb, the previous owner couldn't stand it.

If money were no object, I might think about swapping the Eb's rotors for piston valves, which would set them a few inches farther away for a more relaxed hand position. Or turn the valve set outward, as I've seen in a picture of an old Cerveny Bb.

Of course if you just want a largish Eb helicon with 4 rotary valves, I could set you up for a modest price, since I don't actually play that one much. 18 inch bell flare, noticeably fatter than the Cerveny F, circle wrap.

I would rather try this out on a horn that actually works with three valves before I invested more money on a four valve set.
Afterall, it could turn out to be a dog!

Frank Ortega

iiipopes wrote:If you want an Eb helicon project, get this:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30981" target="_blank" target="_blank

That's the one I've got my eye on.

Donn wrote:Or turn the valve set outward, as I've seen in a picture of an old Cerveny Bb.

That's part of the reason I thought the older style might be more comfortable. I also like the more forward facing bell. I figured I could fiddle with the angles until I was satisfied.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30902"%20%20target="_blank

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30371"%20%20target="_blank

Prices are negotiable. The Amati is actually very big for an F.

Mike-ICR wrote:
The Czec horn

I think someone was trying to sell this exact horn on here last summer. I contacted with interest, but didn't get a price, then never heard back at all. Anyone know what's up with it?

circusboy wrote:

Mike-ICR wrote:
The Czec horn

I think someone was trying to sell this exact horn on here last summer. I contacted with interest, but didn't get a price, then never heard back at all. Anyone know what's up with it?

Here's the site I found it on: http://www.markrubin.com/bass.html" target="_blank

Some years ago a younger poster had ideas like your, only he wanted to put the brass portion of a Conn 22K on the main branches of a Cerveny style helicon.

However the airpaths were not compatible due to parts of the helicon airpath going counter-clock-wise seen from the front.

My worry about that project also was about joining heavy American tubing with the much lighter tubing of the old German/Czech instruments. These two types of instruments have each their way of response. It is possible to adapt ones playing style to these responses, but I am not at all convinced that hybrids would work well.

Klaus