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Just to kinda see what thoughts are out there.

How do you go about teaching a BRAND NEW tuba players (someone who has limited or no other musical instrument experiences)? Wht are the first few things you do?

How do you go about teaching new tuba players who are, essentially, switch-to's(ex: ex trumpet player etc.)?

I think, above all, that I try and make the instrument seem as fun as possible (though a lot of the tuba lends that itself). I also think much less regimented in "practice requiremens". I really want the player to just be able to develop a sense of how to make a sound, get a feel of the instrument size and feel free to "goof around" (WHICH in turn can be a great tool for teaching improvisation........side note: I remember being told "stop goofing around on your trombone" before band class WAY back in the day........ GOOFING around is essential.....though, you gotta have balance too).

I also like to get baby tuba players playing REAL songs as soon as possible. That is, simple tunes by rote or music(yankee doodle, etc). At least then, they can play something not "hot cross buns" or "quarter note fun". Something recognizeable.

Any thoughts? Maybe some interesting anecotes or things you've tried with young players that worked or didn't work?

well, I think that you should never brand or spank a new tuba player...that certainly doesn't work.
lots of positive feedback both to the group and the individuals, and yes keep it fun and light hearted, there is plenty of time for serious technical stuff later.
and remember, the verb we use to describe what we do with a musical instrument is "play"

My thoughts on this, but since your typical brand new tuba player is probably in Middle School, wouldn't it be good to teach them tunes they know and like, as opposed to classical music or what they'll percieve as "kid stuff" (like yankee doodle)? Movie melodies come to mind (what kid doesn't know Star Wars?) or some rock stuff (crazy train or other typical pep-band fodder might work). Heck, what do kids that age listen to these days anyways?

Nick Pierce wrote:My thoughts on this, but since your typical brand new tuba player is probably in Middle School, wouldn't it be good to teach them tunes they know and like, as opposed to classical music or what they'll percieve as "kid stuff" (like yankee doodle)? Movie melodies come to mind (what kid doesn't know Star Wars?) or some rock stuff (crazy train or other typical pep-band fodder might work). Heck, what do kids that age listen to these days anyways?

That's sorta the thing I've been thinking about lately. I mean, the kid isn't going to sound like a pro yet, so why put something that may be "lame to them" in front of 'em (such as the dreaded "quarter note round-up" or "fun with 8th notes" songs that many books have). Though, if I remember, I was SUPER excited to finally play something like yankee doodle....though, in comparison to "rockin whole note", yankee doodle was a superior tune.

Nick Pierce wrote:My thoughts on this, but since your typical brand new tuba player is probably in Middle School, wouldn't it be good to teach them tunes they know and like, as opposed to classical music or what they'll percieve as "kid stuff" (like yankee doodle)? Movie melodies come to mind (what kid doesn't know Star Wars?) or some rock stuff (crazy train or other typical pep-band fodder might work). Heck, what do kids that age listen to these days anyways?

I don't think that the decision to include tunes like: Hot Cross Buns & Yankee Doodle in beginning books, is necessarily because the authors think that they are the hippest tunes around, but because they are logical, in a specific sequence, for the student's technical development. Other tunes (like: Over the Rainbow & Star Wars), while great music, require skills that are not yet developed in beginning players. Those kind of tunes are great as supplemental studies, when the student has developed sufficient technique, though.

The tuba players in my school were started out with the tuba book, but played a baritone or euph sounding everything up an octave in grade school and early jr high or middle school until they achieved enough physical stature to transition to a King souzy mounted on a Wenger chair, and then adjust the embouchure to play in the written octave.

I delved into the trenches as a high school freshman volunteering to march on souzy, and since I had played trumpet from 5th grade and had piano lessons before that so I knew bass clef, the same director just issued me a horn and a fingering chart and said go for it, making sure that on beat "1" of a measure my left foot hit the ground simultaneously with playing the note. Absolutely a fantastic director, Navy trained. But he was a woodwind man, so couldn't give me much beyond general pointers. I just went for it.

ehlutzcem wrote:How about having them learn some bass lines from a current pop tune? Gads, it's been 35 years ago, but I remember rocking out playing the bass line from "Black Magic Woman" whilst a baritone played the melody, just jammin' in the band room.....

That sounds like fun... beginner or not.

I start them with etude no. 1 from the arbans book... then we move to no. 2 and so forth until they can play all 12 keys ... then the possibilities are endless

ztuba wrote:I start them with etude no. 1 from the arbans book... then we move to no. 2 and so forth until they can play all 12 keys ... then the possibilities are endless

Is that what Arban recommended?

If you start with 100 brand spankin new tuba players and start them on your curriculum - how many do you have left in your program when they get to the point where they can "play all 12 keys"?

ztuba wrote:I start them with etude no. 1 from the arbans book... then we move to no. 2 and so forth until they can play all 12 keys ... then the possibilities are endless

Wow...a professional player that teaches beginners.

I hope you're kidding about the Arban studies...I can't think of a more boring way to start beginning students in private lessons.

The exercises don't address all 12 keys until #9, where the same short pattern is moved upward through all 12 keys. #10 does the same. Then there isn't any modulation within exercises until #46, where the circle of fifths movement is used. After that, it's a LONG time through the book before all 12 keys are used.

Did you mean you have the students learn the beginning studies in all 12 keys? Do you write them out? Or are you using a different section of the Arban than the "First Studies"?

It seems to me that the old method books that are still in print have withstood the test of time for a reason. They provide a structured means of moving through initial skills. Who cares if the tunes are "lame"? They won't be lame to a beginner, who may have never made a tune in his or her short life.

The outline I see in these books is: Provide a reasonable challenge with instruction on how to meet it. That yields some accomplishment, which brings satisfaction, and then build on that accomplishment using the motivation that comes from that satisfaction. That fundamental formula for education in any topic was the subject of a long conversation among a few of us at the conference last week. My recollection of classic method books is: Sit and hold the instrument properly. Breathe in and out properly. Practice blowing strawberries for a few minutes to learn the basic mechanism of sound production. Then buzz into the instrument. The first note will, of course, be noise, but even that accomplishment (sound instead of silence) is still positive movement so treat it as such. Build on that with some demonstration of buzzing at a certain frequency. At that point, the best technique for teaching is probably demonstration. ("Watch what I do. Now, you try it. That's good! Now, I'm going to do this. Now, you try it...") Once the student can buzz a pitch, then perhaps you introduce the first or second valve. Also focus on the result as much as the mechanism.

The outline for progress is right there in the good method books. What the teacher adds is the feedback loop.

Rick "thinking children are easier to teach than adults" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:It seems to me that the old method books that are still in print have withstood the test of time for a reason. They provide a structured means of moving through initial skills. Who cares if the tunes are "lame"? They won't be lame to a beginner, who may have never made a tune in his or her short life.

BUT...where the structure can remain the same over many decades, the melodic material *can* become "lame".

Arban stressed the utility of playing *popular tunes* - tunes that the student already knew (and liked?). The tunes in the book may no longer meet those criteria!

Also, if we limit ourselves to "Arbans Complete Method...", while it is chock full of source material it's not strong on STRUCTURE. PERHAPS the student can "start at #1 and continue..." That probably works for about 10 pages or so. After that, an instructor (or a separate "guide to Arbans") is necessary.

My personal favorite for *self-study* is Rubanks. In the first book, it works to start at page 1 and play sequentially until you reach the last page. At some point (I don't recall off hand if it's book 2 or 3) the material is grouped by TYPE of material and there is a separate outline that tells you how to make progress on about 5 different fronts, simultaneously.

Once you get past the first 32 Arban's exercises, I think it's time to start sprinkling in NOVEL melodic material. How to do this may depend on the student. One major goal is to get the student to pay attention to musical phrasing, and this is easier if the student already "knows the tune". Early on, it may be challenging to find a TUNE the student knows that only uses the NOTES the student knows. But, as soon as posible, it's preferable for the student to start with the tune (what's playing on his favorite radio station) and pick the tune with his ears. Some will be able to play the tune directly on the horn - for others it might be useful to have them write out the notes. If a piano is handy, the process might be a) tune, b) piano, c) written, d) played on the tuba.

Now...some students will do this on their own - much to the annoyance of many band directors. These are the ones who are always "noodling" or "goofing around". Some are also the ones we complain about in the elephant room - playing "excerpts" that they really don't understand, but that they think "sound cool". This kind of *play* should be encouraged. After all, we *play* the instrument, we don't *work* it. Exercises and etudes are *work* (necessary work - I'm not suggesting eliminating them!) - but "tunes" (including bass lines) are *play*.

If anyone is looking for a publication project, I'd recommend AGAINST yet another method book or yet another collection of etudes. The ones we have are more than sufficient. Instead, take the Rubanks books and look carefully at the melodic material. Determine the pedagogical GOAL of each piece and write a NEW, MODERN, POPULAR REPLACEMENT for every number. Call it "New Melodic Material, keyed to Rubank's Book <X>". Actually, this looks like an excellent source of exercises for college-level students: "given the following pitches, and the following rhythms, write a version of any tune currently on the Top 40".

They won't be lame to a beginner, who may have never made a tune in his or her short life.

Im sure that lots of kids, by the time they're in sixth grade, have at least sung a song and made some music. I'm not so sure that a new player would find those tunes "un-lame". In working with beginning band students, I've noticed that they are WELL aware of the tunes they play. Several years ago I created a middle school pep-band arrangement of "Come on Eileen" (yeah....I know, right? ). I just got a message from a friend who dug it out and is rehearsing it with his 6th graders. They are EATING it up and even in that piece (though watered down) there are many teachable things.



Some food for thought regarding this:

True, some children don't care what they're playing as long as their playing. However, whole notes and boring parts are going to be a HUGE part of a tuba players life. I think they deserve something (even at a beginner level) that is musically interesting (of course, developmentally appropriate. That is, I wouldn't give a player of 2 days something unachievable.) Foe example, why not use the excerpt from "Night on Bald Mountain"?It would be a great teachable opportunity for students because it has some accidentals (OH NO! Accidentals for a young tuba player???!!) but it also has a relatively simple meter. And of course, students will likely enjoy something they really recognize.


Something though I wonder as well is:

How do most method books begin? They use whole notes. A sequence of whole notes that the student is expected to play in time. However, aren't whole notes (as far as counting) some of the more difficult tasks, especially for beginners? Is there a way around that? I am not giving my opinion, but I'm just curious to see what sort of thoughts are out there on this.


Another point:

Don't be too afraid to challenge even new players. A player doesn't need to master hot cross buns before trying something more challenging. Maybe giving something a tad beyond, but have it be fun/interesting, would motivate him/her to learn at a quicker pace.

Keys!??

Why is it that many players are so afraid of keys? Because they 1) ONLY ever have to play Bb or Eb or maybe Ab in band, and 2) when they are expected to learn new keys, it's in context of scales...and frankly, scales are pretty boring to young players (YES, I know...this is a generalization..I'm sure theres some kids who go gaga over scales).
If we started a new generation of players on, for example, A major and Bb, instead of Bb and Eb, I'll bet scales may be a bit scarier. I'm not saying that we should. But simply, if we make things sound less scary for our students, then maybe they will have a different perception.


Sorry this is all over the place. My mind is running a million miles an hour and I gotta get over to UPS ( not tuba related, don't worry) anyway. I wanna hear what others think.

I think a big problem with "popular" tunes is that peoples' tastes vary so much. My pep band sat in with a high school pep band last Friday (free food),and they did a song by Avril Lavine. I know from a quick poll of the tuba section that we both couldn't stand her, yet a few people did. It's all too subjective to be able to make something that everyone will like.
Just looking quickly at my "most played" on Itunes, it goes from Jethro Tull to Shostakovich 5 to Streetlight Manifesto to Buffalo Springfield to Emerson Lake and Palmer,and keeps going. I mean, sure I've got a crazy eclectic taste in music, but aside from one album put out last year ("Somewhere in the Between" by Streetlight Manifesto), the majority of my music is from the 60s and 70s (...and a bunch of classical). If back when I was in elementary school learning music, and someone put Backstreet Boys music in front of me, I would have quit right then and there (that's what was "popular" when I was in 4th and 5th grade...a sad time for the world). I would say that it probably is good that while the examples aren't necissarily the most up to date, at least they aren't modern pop crap.
If someone likes that music, they can go out and get a book of it...I got a Beatles book, and I often use it more as a technical exercise than musical. You can really learn how to transpose, read different clefs, etc if you know the music and can identify if you are flat out doing something wrong.

I think that a number of the tunes in beginning band books tend to fall into the category of "folk" songs, and as such, have a certain timeless quality (for better, or worse), and are good for kids to know.

I think a better approach to this whole thing is to let kids discover how to play music by ear, after they learn the "Hot Cross Buns"/"Yankee Doodle" type things. That way they can eventually play whatever they want, without any help!

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:That way they can eventually play whatever they want, without any help!

And learning music theory, sight screaming, ear straining and piano profanity along the way helps.

Last summer my son's Cub Scout Pack set up to sell a fundraiser at a local grocery store. I jokingly took my Besson along and advertised "$1" requests to help. One of the other leaders teased me and bet me I couldn't play "Freebird." After the second verse, she conceded and dropped her dollar.

Yes, getting to the point of playing by ear without music, without an ensemble or accompanist, just you and the brick wall, is great. Now, if I lose my job...nah, this area doesn't have a good subway system to get natural reverberation from the corridors.

Well what I mean by possibilities are endless is ... Bordogni, kopprasch, Blaz, scnedcor ?spelling? , I get em playing whole notes properly then I move em through scales memorize all 12 keys. then I have em learn to play acrobatics like octave drills and remmington stuff. I also like them to learn a tune a week by ear. start with mary had a little lamb and move from there. They need to be able to play notes first. I like starting with blowing whole notes in the mid register, because it builds a good foundation for advancement. I usually let them pick the "song of the week" unless they don't have anything that they want to play. To begin though .. I think you should be able to get a Bb, f, Bb out of the horn with no problems... then you need to learn to play notes and that is where I start em on page one of the first studies. Anyone studying from me should be leaning towards winning every competition and chair placement that comes their way and should therefore practice whatever boring music I put on their stand, gleefully with the end result of being a solid tuba player in mind.