TubeNet

Is there an tuba industry standard or agreed-upon "best practice" for the relative position of the main tuning slide at modern accepted pitch? In other words, if one is tuned to a pitch corresponding to the current accepted scale, is the main tuning slide supposed to be all the way "in", 1/4 - 1/3 of the way "out", etc.? It would seem that it would be desirable to have the ability to rise above standard pitch for the occasional errant oboist or pipe organ, and this has been my personal experience over the years with low-brass instruments that I have played and owned. Just wondering if this is coincidence or whether this is standard practice, and if so, is the standard practice formally defined / documented anywhere?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Outawind wrote:Is there an tuba industry standard or agreed-upon "best practice" for the relative position of the main tuning slide at modern accepted pitch? ....

I spent 30 years in manufacturing where 'standards' play a very important part in everything from mousetraps to space shuttles. I'm not trying to be a 'snot' here. But... it's been my experience that the music instrument industry pays little attention to what most of us consider to be 'standards'. Although A=440 is the commonly adopted standard for pitch, how it's obtained seems to be a bit nebulous.

The horns I have played, from trumpets to tubas, when indoors at @70F, usually pitch A-440 when the main tuning slide is pulled out about its diameter, or just a tad more. One notable exception to this is the 38K, which when outdoors in typical midwestern October weather plays A-440 when the main slide is that far out, and needs to be pulled farther when warmer.

Bloke Said:

I prefer CC tubas to be built where I can play @ A=440 (with the instrument warmed up) with the tuning slide pulled out approx. 1-1/4".

I prefer F/Eb tubas to be built where I can play @ A=440 (with the instrument warmed up) with the tuning slide out approx. 3/4".

Without having an preconceived notion of how far out a slide should be, I have recently spent a lot of time on a Miraphone 184 CC and M-W 182 (specifically ordered to be built and play at A=440, not 445). Inspecting the two horns leads me to the conclusions Bloke posted. The slide on the F is @ 3/4" out and the slide on the CC is out about 1-1/4". But I tuned to my Korg Tuner with the same or similar mouthpiece on both horns. Since the mouthpiece(s) stick out farther on the Miraphone than the M-W (Miraphone has a more nearly sandard receiver; M-W is a little larger) I don't know what this proves.

My experience leads me to believe there is a whole lot of difference in the way different mouthpieces affect intonation, from the shaft diameter to the cup bore and depth to the back bore and the rim.

Further, it is my experience that I will adapt to the "group" consensus of pitch as I play with a group and this happens in about 1 minute of playing so, regardless of how I tune, my goal is to play in tune. If this adaptatioin is too extreme, I will change the tuning slide so the correct group intonation is more centered. I think we all play this way to some degree.

So, what provokes this question? Are we to take an intonation stand with a ruler-verified tuning slide postion or is it a request for a reasonable place to start with the tuning slide when beginning a group playing event?

Piccolos are exclude from this discussion.

Since temperature and pitch can go both up and down, not necessarily in a correlative manner from ensemble to ensemble and place to place, it seems that for most American ensembles that there needs to be sufficient main slide tuning length to accommodate from A-442 @50F to A-440 @80F, with enough extra pull for A-440 @90F for outdoor summer concerts. with a horn built to these parameters, the position of the main tuning slide for A-440 @65-70F should be about where bloke likes his slides.

[quote="bill"]..... Since the mouthpiece(s) stick out farther on the Miraphone than the M-W (Miraphone has a more nearly standard receiver; M-W is a little larger) I don't know what this proves. /quote]

There's that word 'standard' again. The industry doesn't even have a set 'standard' for the tapers and length that the tapers engage. There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't expect any given mouthpiece to insert to about the same depth in any given horn.

bloke wrote:I'm additionally annoyed that my Toyota key doesn't not fit Dan's BMW.

Use a bigger hammer (standardizes mouthpieces, too).
- All I need to know I learned in middle-school wood shop.

And speaking of standards, mouthpiece geometry can also make a difference: when I play the Besson with its Wick 1 small shank, I pull out as posted above. When I play it with the Kelly 18, with the "standard" shank, of course, it sticks out farther. You'd think I'd have to push the main tuning slide to compensate. I don't. They play the same relative pitch! No pushing or pulling required for the difference in the mouthpiece insertion, just for the usual temperature differences.