TubeNet

Conn Helleberg

majrbandgeek1 wrote:What type of mouithpiece would be good for a 9th grade tuba player in high school?

The two archetype mouthpieces are the Conn Helleberg and the Bach 18. If your student has a really small face, a Bach 22 might be acceptable to start with, but that's probably more for 6th and 7th-graders. I would probably lean to the Bach 18 because it provides a little more resistance. The differences between those and everything else is for chasing rainbows, much later in life.

Rick "who suffered with a 24AW through school out of ignorance and lack of guidance, and now wishes it had been an 18" Denney

Why do you want to switch? Is this mouthpiece not working for you or is it of poor quality or what?

I'm of the opinion that starting a high schooler on a Conn Helleberg can lead to future problems. The Helleberg has a very deep cup for a high schooler's chops, if not given proper instruction, they can develop collapsing habits just to make a sound. That's been my experience anyway...

You should try a Bach 18, that's the one I played on throughout high school...(before I regrettably switched to a Helleberg...)

I wouldn't buy new mouthpieces just to try them (lots of people do that; I just prefer not to), but just keep your eyes peeled always for guys with different mouthpieces and ask them for a test run. If money is no object, though, go ahead and buy a truckload of mouthpieces, invest time in them and return the ones that don't work.

bloke wrote: Bach 12 works. I've had the same wife for 30 years (not counting the free trial)...I dunno about a newer/better. She still works OK.

I take it the Mrs. doesn't read this forum....

Right now, I am using a Bach 12. And was looking for a newer and better version mouth piece for me. I've had this mouthpiece since 6th grade.

If you are currently using a Bach 12, and feel the need to change/experiment, I would suggest trying the Conn 120s. I would not say the Conn is necessarily a "newer and better version" of your current mouthpiece, but it would allow you to compare and contrast a medium depth bowl mouthpiece with a medium wide rim (your Bach 12), to a deep funnel mouthpiece with a more narrow/sharper inner edge Helleberg type rim (the Conn 120s). Also, the inner diameter of both of these mouthpieces is, I believe, around 32.5mm, so the switch should not be all that dramatic.

Beginning to understand and appreciate the difference between these two fundamentally different types of mouthpieces may be of some value to you, even at your young age. Just don't start to obsess over mouthpieces at this stage of your tuba playing development. Most every weakness you wish to improve at this stage of your development will simply require good instruction and practice, not an endless line of different mouthpieces.

TubaBobH wrote:

Right now, I am using a Bach 12. And was looking for a newer and better version mouth piece for me. I've had this mouthpiece since 6th grade.

If you are currently using a Bach 12, and feel the need to change/experiment, I would suggest trying the Conn 120s. I would not say the Conn is necessarily a "newer and better version" of your current mouthpiece, but it would allow you to compare and contrast a medium depth bowl mouthpiece with a medium wide rim (your Bach 12), to a deep funnel mouthpiece with a more narrow/sharper inner edge Helleberg type rim (the Conn 120s).

Why change TWO variables (bowl and rim) at the same time?

If a mouthpiece works, then stay with it.

For several years I stayed with the PT-50 for all of my basses in Eb and BBb (except for a tiny Besson Eb from 1870).

With a new (to me) F tuba the PT-50 gave a marvellous sound, but too little control in high range low dynamics. That set me of on a search not yet completed, and I was infected insofar that I searched for alternatives for the larger tubas also.

The MF-3H was too small for my BBb contrabasses, but proved itself the real thing on the Eb basses. It also works on the CC added to the collection more recently, but a narrow stem version would be better there.

If the Bach 12 makes you lay out a solid foundation for your band, then a person at your age shall have some very serious work on solo literature to motivate mouthpiece experimentation. This is not a matter of babying you, but it takes some knowledge and some cash to experiment (I am not the type selling used mouthpieces).

Some players are gifted with a light texture of lips, which allows for smaller mouthpieces and a very fast technique. I have thick lips, which need larger mouthpieces. For me the problem is to find the real cut between space allowing my lips to work and just enough resistance to a allow for finer control, The mouthpieces not in current use all have proved themselves being too small.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Why change TWO variables (bowl and rim) at the same time?

If this were a rigorous empirical test, then I would agree, let's change one variable at a time and hold all others constant. However, we are talking about a young musician who has only been playing the tuba for 3 or 4 years and who has experience with one mouthpiece - the Bach 12. I don't see a need to over complicate this.

If you agree that the Bach 18 and Conn 120s each represent the two tuba mouthpiece "branches" from which all other mouthpieces are pretty much derived. And if you believe that the Bach 12 is fundamentally similar to Bach 18, then it just makes sense to me (with the caveats stated in my original post to this thread) that a logical case could be made that the next mouthpiece this young gentleman should try is a Conn 120s. This would allow him to begin to compare and contrast the two archetypal mouthpiece types, with minimal disruption to his playing since they both have the same inner diameter. Anyway, just my two cents worth...

Fortunately, there are lots of good choices these days. If you want to compare, here is an interactive chart of the brands available (as many as I could compile so far):

http://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/tuba.cfm

You could start by looking up some of the models mentioned on this forum. If you know a model that is comfortable/appropriate, you can click in the "Rim" column by that mouthpiece and see a list of mouthpieces of similar rim size. Because there is not particular standard for measuring cup depth I have included only what the manufacturer says, usually a vague term such as "deep." You will also notice that different brands may use the same numbering system, which might allow you to find a cheaper version of a mouthpiece. (However, it was not possible to rate quality for all these choices, so there is a "buyer beware" factor.)

NOTE to other forum members: if you see any models or a whole line that is missing from the list, please let me know and I'll try to gather the data so the list stays as complete as possible. There are links at the top of the page for trombone and euphonium mouthpiece lists as well.