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As an Englishman teaching ages 8 to 18 in a variety of settings I was wondering if anyone could explain what the 'normal' setup is in the US for teaching music (band?)?

What age do things begin and roughly how?
How do classes begin and what materials are used?
What is the process for allocating instruments?
Home-practice (ha ha ha, I know)?
What range of bands exist in schools & outside of school (All-State etc)?

etc etc.

I'm sure this varies from State-to-State but some huge generalisations would help me get a picture.
Thanks.
MP

In California

start kids near 4th grade (for wind instruments other than recorder)age 9-10
Various beginning band method books are used (such as standard of excellence)
Instruments are generally rented or purchased by the student (most schools have SOME instruments to lend out, larger instruments usually available from school)
Most schools require some kind of practice log asking for somewhere between half an hour to 2 hours a week.
County and State Honor bands.. youth orchestras sometimes have a wind ensemble attached with their organization.

this may be outdated now.. thats how it was a few years ago but I have heard way too many depressing stories of school boards attempting to cut music lately. 1 local school is going from 2 full time teachers to 1 teacher (students will now be on a rotation, getting 3 months of music split up over 9 months)

cant imagine what kind of 4th grader is going to have any shot pursuing music even as a hobby with instruction less than 5 days a month.

In Texas, students begin at 6th grade for band, so around age 11. At the end of 5th grade, the band directors start recruiting and going through the instrument choice process so that at the beginning of their 6th grade year, they can get started off promptly.

As a beginner (6th grade) the students are usually in a class with similar instruments, and occasionally rehearse as an entire band. These classes (so for low brass, it's trombones, euphs, tubas) mainly work on fundamentals, and sometimes they are even given a work book and have assignments, etc. "Standard of Excellence" and "Essential Elements" series of books are often used down here.

As far as instruments are concerned, the schools own most of the larger ones as well. Euphs, tubas, some trombones, some trumpets, horns, and bassoons are usually owned by the schools. Other woodwinds and brasses will usually rent or even buy their instruments.

Most schools here have about a 30 minute a day practice log that the students keep. Their parents usually are required to sign it off to verify that they actually practiced.

Ensembles outside of school include all-state/all-region/all-area groups, youth bands/orchestras, but aside from that, there isn't much else for outside school. Within school, their are generally a few different bands at the high school level (usually 2, sometimes 3), with the "top group" being more of a wind ensemble. Students also form small groups (tuba-euph ensemble, quartets, etc.) for solo and ensemble competitions in Feb/March. I forgot to mention, that in the fall, students are usually HEAVILY involved in a very competitive marching band scene around here, with some kids being involved in colorguard (mainly woodwinds) instead of playing in the actual band. Spring is more of a "concert season", with winterguard being the equivalent of colorguard here.

Hope this helps.
Heather

So Music tuition in schools = band class?

Band is compulsory to begin, then at some point it becomes optional?

Do kids get much choice about instrument choice or do they play what's needed?

Thanks.

compulsory depends on the district.

many have some kind of compulsory for one or two grades, but that is not universal at all.

instrument choice is usually up to the kid (for the most part), though as you move up the grades, there might be requests from teh directors to move around (moving the larger trumpet players to tuba, etc).

OK, if I'm getting this, largely kids opt in as they choose and a band is formed with whomever elects to play?
When do these band classes happen - lunchtimes/after school?
Do individual (or small groups of similar-instrument) lessons feature as a rule as well as band?

Do kids get any compulsory music education as part of the school curriculum?

Appreciate the responses.

Peach wrote:.... Do kids get any compulsory music education as part of the school curriculum?.....

Here is Southern Indiana... NO.

All of our elementary school programs were wiped out several years ago due to budget restraints. Kids can now start band in the sixth grade (about age 12). Very little attention is payed to fundamentals and theory. Kids are basically given a fingering chart and a method book and told to 'go practice'. Larger and more expensive instruments like tubas, euphoniums, F horns, bass clarinets, and bassoons are provide by the school. Most everyone else buys or rents their own instrument. If parents want their kids to learn much at all about music they have to take them to private teachers. In the ninth grade (high school) the focus shifts to marching band... which is treated more like a sports program than an academic one. Many kids simply drop out of band because they don't want to participate in marching band. Participation in marching band is required in order to participate in other 'fun' programs like ensembles and jazz band.

Peach wrote:OK, if I'm getting this, largely kids opt in as they choose and a band is formed with whomever elects to play?

That's generally the case.

When do these band classes happen - lunchtimes/after school?

Depends on the school district, and sometimes the individual school: in some schools, it's an elective course, so band class happens during normal school hours; in others it's an extra-curricular activity so it happens before or after school.

Do individual (or small groups of similar-instrument) lessons feature as a rule as well as band?

Again, depends on the school district: when I was in school, sectional lessons (grade-based) took place during the summer (2 hour lessons 3 days a week); during the school year, nada. At the school my nephew attends, sectionals take place once a week throughout the school year; on the other days, the band practices as a group.

Do kids get any compulsory music education as part of the school curriculum?

[broken record]Depends on the school district.[/broken record]

The educational establishment generally agrees that compulsory music education is a good thing, but music programs (not just band, but orchestral, choral, music appreciation, etc.) are typically among the first things to get cut when a school district is facing a budget crunch.

Usually after the first year of study, auditions are held and then the kids are placed accordingly into groups based on ability. They can sometimes also "challenge" other players and move up chairs in the group.

When I was in junior high and high school, we always had band first period, so around 8:00AM. During marching season we had rehearsals before and after school as well as our normal band class at 8. During the summer they also have marching band camps at schools in order to learn a bulk of the marching show before the real season starts.

Compulsory education usually consists of some sort of "basic" instrument (recorder, voice) around 4th-5th grades, but this varies widely from school district to school district and from state to state. Band starting at 5th grade is optional. It is always optional.

Also in marching season, the bands compete at many national competitions as well as state competitions. There are different categories that they rate the bands in, such as general effect, auxiliary, colorguard, etc. In TX and OK I know they are also separated based on size--the biggest in Oklahoma is 6A and the biggest in TX being 5A, but they mean different things...obviously a 5A band in TX is going to be bigger than the biggest 6A band in OK (so you have 1A being the smallest), and this ranking is based on SCHOOL POPULATION, not size of band. This way you don't have a really large program competing against a small school. Some high school bands in Texas can be as large as 300+ people.

New Jersey
Again, so much varies from school district to district. Typically, if the instrumental program has not been relegated to before-or-after-school activity, the elementary students [usually started in 4th grade, 9-10 year old] are pulled out of class on a posted schedule, or sometimes on a rotating schedule so as not to affect the same class every week. Kids are usually in small groups, same instrument if possible, once a week, and once a week meet for band, either beginning or advanced.
There are also so-called "vocal teachers" who are scheduled [these classes are one of the grade teacher's prep periods and are never to be missed!] and teach about music in general and, supposedly, vocal training.

Peach wrote:What age do things begin and roughly how?
How do classes begin and what materials are used?
What is the process for allocating instruments?
Home-practice (ha ha ha, I know)?
What range of bands exist in schools & outside of school (All-State etc)?

1. Most kids start in band in 6th or 7th grade (age 11-12). It usually depends on when middle school starts. Some districts (in Texas and Virginia) include grades 6-8 in middle school, some include grades 7-9, and some just grades 7 and 8. In elementary school (through the 6th grade when I was in school), we studied music generally. There was a compulsory weekly one-hour music class, where the schools single music teacher went from class to class. That usually involved singing, and perhaps a bit of listening. When I was in school, there was an optional music appreciation class, where we learned a range of famous works, with the ability to earn an award if we could identify a range of works at the end of the class. My non-musical parents required attendance in that program and we were expected to bring home that aware (we did). I'm sure all that is different now, and probably not as good.

Music in American public schools (not the same thing as "public school" in England, of course) is never compulsory in my experience, except for perhaps a one-hour weekly music class in elementary school, where the children were taught to sing (but not read music).

2. Classes usually start with a basic method-book series. In my case (though 38 years ago), we started with F at the bottom of the staff, and worked from there. In parallel, we learned basic music notation, primarily the lengths of notes. The 7th-grade "beginning" band could usually play unison melodies by the Spring concert (having started in September). Better students usually advanced to intermediate or advanced bands as their abilities warranted (and as the needs of those groups demanded). I was moved to the advanced band partway through my first year, because they needed a tuba player. I remember the band director gently teaching me the meaning of a dotted half note at that first rehearsal, which, of course, my older band-mates already knew.

Band classes were scheduled just like academic and PE classes, though the advanced band is usually the last class period of the day, either in support of after-school marching practice (for high schools) or for taking the instrument home.

3. In my youth, children were allowed to bring their instrument preferences to beginning band, but were usually subject to persuasion by the band director, who might lead them to a different choice. The director's motivation was often based on the natural abilities of the student, but sometimes based on the gaps that needed filling. I suspect both were true in my case. This process was true also for my nieces (now in college and grad school, and both music majors).

4. We were expected to practice at home. I suspect that the better schools nowadays also expect students to study with private teachers (I didn't, but my nieces did). We were encouraged to practice every day, and we were required to take our instruments home every day unless we had a compelling reason not to. Being in band was optional, but being serious was a requirement to progress in band. I doubt that it is as strict now, except for kids in the most competitive schools.

5. I have heard bands who could not play Come to Jesus in whole notes. And I have heard the Texas All-State Band that often performs at very close to a professional level. Most large high schools try to perform at Grade 5 or Grade 6 for their contest pieces. But most schools have become too competitive, and spend too much time on contest pieces and not enough time on reading and learning music more broadly.

Rick "whose description applies equally to a high-end program in Texas and a mediocre program in Michigan" Denney

As you see there is no set way band is setup in the US.

In general, states in the north east i believe start more of their students in elementary school around 4th or 5th grade (9-10 years old). Most of these programs schedule lessons once a week or in our case once every 6 day cycle (we do not have classes scheduled Monday through Friday but rather days 1 through 6, Monday would be day 1, Tuesday 2, Wed, 3, etc the following Monday is day 6) The bad part of this is the student only has 3 to four lesson per month. Not bad if they practice at home. Obviously progress is very slow in the early stages. I schedule 4 - 5 kids in a lesson group of like instruments. The students come out of their classrooms for a 35 minute lesson. (What is comomonly called a "pull-out' lesson program.) In addition to the small group lessons there will usually be a full band rehearsal once or twice a week; some schools will have this during the school day and others (such as mine) have it after or before school.

Many schools in the south, start band later in middle school, around 6th grade. They usually have band every day as a scheduled band class. It is my understanding these are with full band and all instruments together in the same class. Again I am not sure how they do this, but I know they often have more than one teacher teaching the band so the groups get split up. I am not sure how this fits into the general school class schedule, but I guess it would be one of many electives offered during a given period that kids could sign up for. Obviously having band lessons everyday, the rate of progress will be much faster than the scenario mentioned above. By high school level it usually all evens out in the end.

Band is optional in my school district. But in addition to the band option every studetn has a classroom music class of general music class where kids learn to sing and learn "about" music and a little bit of music history.

Most students must acquire their own instuments. Usualy parents will rent or lease instruments from a local music store. if there is a financial hardship I do have a few instruments that can be loaned to students, especially trombones, baritones and tubas. Although in recent years the number os these cases has been rising and unfortunately often times students do not last long since there is no sence of "ownership" on the part of the parents. But ocassionally students come along that take off with it so it is worth it.

ken k

Band programs vary not only from state to state but, as in my home state of California, from district to district. In the Los Angeles Unified School District, some schools have band as an academic class, while it's an after school activity in others, while in still others there is no band at all... and that's in the same year in school! In the more affluent suburbs, such as Arcadia (Arcadia Unified School District), students have options of band and string instruments. It's funded by a strong booster organization (the Arcadia Music Club) which takes most of the financing out of the hands of the government. Some poorer districts manage to get everything with government funds.

My son has been in what is called "general music" since kindergarten. He is now in 5th grade, and has signed up for the "pre-band" instrument of this district, which is a plastic recorder. He will play on that until the end of the year, and possibly into the first quarter of next year, 6th grade, when the fledging band members will be evaluated for what is their "appropriate" instrument, based on the director's analysis of the student's physical makeup, embouchure, and aptitude. The band will consist of a simplified concert band arrangement with upper and middle woodwinds and brass, but no larger instruments.

Then in middle school/junior high school, as the students develop in stature, the band will be expanded to full instrumentation, with some students switched on the recommendation of the director as to what instrument to play.

As elsewhere, the standard band is the standard concert band mixed woodwinds/brass/percussion scoring.

This isn't too much different from when I was in band, although the school district I grew up in started with the Conn Song Flute (a simplified instrument half way between a recorder and an ocarina, playing a major 9th from middle C to 4th line D, with only limited chromatic capability, and no second octave). During the first semester, in addition to learning the song flute, we were given a battery of aptitude tests on pitch, rhythm, even phrasing, to see where the aptitude lay. This is where I found out I could hear a difference in two cents' pitch, which could be the result of a worn tape player -- an old 3M reel-to-reel Wollensack, and discovered the difference in timbre between a concrete block wall, wood wall, and windows, as the sound bounced around the room and I focused on what I heard as I turned my head.

A point that the English should find interesting: by the time I started band in 1973, Eb tubas were long gone as a general rule, having basically ceased to be used generally after WWII. So in my school fledgling tuba players were started out on a euphonium, but playing the BBb tuba book (bass clef concert pitch) an octave up from the notation, so the fingerings were learned as if playing BBb tuba, and switched to a King souzy set up on a Wingert chair in junior high school and the embouchure retrained down to the concert pitch octave.

A friend of mine who used to teach beginning band and has emphasis and training on fitting beginning students has evaluated my son and found his embouchure and physicality to be appropriate for trumpet/cornet. Now we will see if his school band director comes to the same conclusion, or with his last name being down the alphabet aways, gets a recommendation of whatever is leftover after the director fits about 2/3 of the students ahead of him.

As set forth above, most students will rent from local music stores. About 1/4 will drop out after a year and not continue on, for a variety of reasons, from inability to play to being more interested in sports.

I forget the name of the beginner method book that will be used. I was taught on the Belwin Band Method, which although now "old fashioned" (it doesn't use cute pictures, graphics or such, or have a play-along disc) is fundamentally sound, and in my view has yet to be equaled.

Band will be taught as a group course, meeting daily for 35 minutes. Private lessons will be encouraged, but not required. There will be a fall and a spring concert, which the goal is to keep them all in the same room without sounding like a litter of stray cats and dogs clawing at each other.

About 20 years ago, the school I grew up in debated the change from starting band in 5th grade to 6th grade. The debate was heated. At the time, having started in 5th grade myself, I could see the argument of needing that extra year of experience to be competitive later when auditioning for college scholarships. Now, after observing my son and some of his friends, I can see that there are some students who just aren't mature enough psychologically to focus on an instrument any earlier, and can make up the difference if they apply themselves in the summer "off season" by going to band camps and/or availing themselves of private lessons.

scottw wrote:New Jersey
Again, so much varies from school district to district. Typically, if the instrumental program has not been relegated to before-or-after-school activity, the elementary students [usually started in 4th grade, 9-10 year old] are pulled out of class on a posted schedule, or sometimes on a rotating schedule so as not to affect the same class every week. Kids are usually in small groups, same instrument if possible, once a week, and once a week meet for band, either beginning or advanced.
There are also so-called "vocal teachers" who are scheduled [these classes are one of the grade teacher's prep periods and are never to be missed!] and teach about music in general and, supposedly, vocal training.

Basically, that's how it works in my NJ district. I see my kids for 1 40 minute period a week, in small groups for lessons (like instruments). We start in 4th grade, and the students are pulled out of class during a scheduled "pull out" period (during which time, some students are sent to BSIP, the Basic Skills Improvement Program). We hold band rehearsals once a week during lunch time. Of course, this is in a K-8 school, so I have students in grades 4-8 (but not together in the same band).

TubaTinker wrote:

Peach wrote:.... Do kids get any compulsory music education as part of the school curriculum?.....

Here is Southern Indiana... NO.

All of our elementary school programs were wiped out several years ago due to budget restraints.

That really makes my heart sink.....and people wonder why many adults can't even carry a tune....

iiipopes wrote:the fledging band members will be evaluated for what is their "appropriate" instrument, based on the director's analysis of the student's physical makeup, embouchure, and aptitude. The band will consist of a simplified concert band arrangement with upper and middle woodwinds and brass, but no larger instruments.

I have to say that this approach to instrument choice is silly. Not a knock on you at all, just making a side point. If directors and etc. knew best I wouldn't be playing the tuba. In fact, I was told that I would NEVER make a good tuba player...and many of my friends were told such things. So I began on Trombone. Not until 8th grade did I make the tuba jump...and being VERY successful at it. Now there are a few things that can effect instrument selection like if a student has a clefted palate or is missing fingers or arms etc. But lip size, height and other things should not matter.

The other thing I notice you had listed was aptitude. WHY IS APTITUDE EVEN CONSIDERED!??? Many schools use aptitude to place instruments into the hands of young children. For example: Oboe is hard or flute has melody a lot or clarinets are important...our high aptitude kids need to get on these instruments. And then what happens to the "leftovers"? They end up on....baritone, tuba, trombone, percussion....Not always...but you can see how I draw this conclusion. "Well, the tuba doesn't have "hard" parts or whatever".....SO? *sigh.....*

So..are there things to consider on instrument choice? Yes. A TON of things. But are there band directors who use this "knowledge" to serve their purposes or use these as an end-all means of getting a student on an instrument? Yes there are way too many.

I would also argue that a small 6th grader CAN in fact hold and play a tiny 3/4 BBb tuba. I would also argue that if you want euphoniums, then just stick a kid on it. Don't make them play trumpet for 2 years, then switch and be doomed to play Treble Clef Euphonium parts....BAH! I could rant all day..but I won't

*Edit* Sorry to hijack this thread....

pierso20 wrote:

iiipopes wrote:the fledging band members will be evaluated for what is their "appropriate" instrument, based on the director's analysis of the student's physical makeup, embouchure, and aptitude. The band will consist of a simplified concert band arrangement with upper and middle woodwinds and brass, but no larger instruments.

I have to say that this approach to instrument choice is silly...*Edit* Sorry to hijack this thread....

I absolutely agree. I am only relating what is going on in my son's school. I can see that the director and I may have to have a "long talk" next year.

My director wanted me to play trombone and I adamantly refused, clutching my dad's trumpet, who was deceased at that point. He finally relented, and I went on to play very well, band camper of the year, co-lead in jazz band, 1st section in concert band, etc.

My personal view is get them a small bore Eb tuba, a Wick 4 or 5 or a Bach 22, and go for it 6th grade. So what if the fledgling tubist has to relearn BBb fingerings? No big deal. Half of the fingerings are the same anyway.

Thanks for the replies - interesting reading to say the least.

I was always under the false impression that band was the way music was taught in the US and was compulsory. Shows how wrong you can be I suppose.

Just a couple more questions-
If kids opt-in to band class (and presumably want to do the class?) why do instruments get so beat-to-crap so quickly? That again is a preconception I've picked up from reading other posts so I could be way off base again.

When kids opt-in to band, what are they missing out on from the standard curriculum?

I expect answers to both questions will again vary widely from State-to-State...

Thanks again!

Peach wrote:Thanks for the replies - interesting reading to say the least.

I was always under the false impression that band was the way music was taught in the US and was compulsory. Shows how wrong you can be I suppose.

Just a couple more questions-
If kids opt-in to band class (and presumably want to do the class?) why do instruments get so beat-to-crap so quickly? That again is a preconception I've picked up from reading other posts so I could be way off base again.

When kids opt-in to band, what are they missing out on from the standard curriculum?

I expect answers to both questions will again vary widely from State-to-State...

Thanks again!

Good questions, both.

Instruments tend to get beaten up pretty badly because, quite simply, the kids who beat them up don't care. Usually I see it happen to school instruments...instruments the kids own themselves are usually a little more well cared for, because their parents make sure their money doesn't go down the tubes. Rentals also tend to get beaten up, because rental usually come with some sort of insurance plan...if it's free to get it fixed, who cares if it breaks, right???

That said, it is to my experience that MOST kids take decent care of their instruments. Accidents do happen from time to time, but generally, most kids are pretty good with them. The ones who don't, though, often cause a lot of damage...and not always to their own instrument.

As for your second question....this will not only vary from state to state, but from school district to school district. I would even go so far as to say there is probably some variation from school to school within the same district. In my school, as I said before, there is a designated pull out period for the kids who need extra help (BSIP). The other kids usually have an "enrichment" period, where they do some extra work, or can read on their own. I get to see my band students during this time, so they really don't miss anything.