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We hear a lot of talk here about playing LOUDly. But not so much about playing softly. To my ears, the mark of an excellent ensemble (or individual player) is the ability to play softly.

Players in beginner bands have two volume levels: ON and off - so arrangements for them create dynamics by writing whole sections in and out of the piece. Advanced music for "one-on-a-part" wind ensembles do quite a bit of that too (but more for color than volume).

I'm talking about middle-of-the-road arrangements for a full band. A merely competent band has only one volume level: ON. The players mostly ignore those ppp->fff "hints" written on the page (and even when they try to pay attention, their skills only allow them to play mp->ff). The band as a whole is usually somewhere from mf->ff.

So - some questions:

for individual players - how much time do you spend on PRACTICING playing softly?

for band directors - how much time do you spend trying to get the ensemble to play softly?

for both - are there any clever techniques to help the player/ensemble get better control over dynamics (specifically ppp->mp)?

As an individual player, I spend more time practicing playing softly than I do playing loudly. I spend some time on both.

As a band director I insisted on the dynamics being played, and realized that if I did that consistently, the group would learn to produce the tone quality to go with it.

My belief is that most adequate to good players can play with good tone while playing in the easiest register of the instrument, and at medium volume. I try to teach my students to expand outward from both those points, while attempting to keep essentially the same tone quality. I will admit this is a gross oversimplification of the concept, but I believe it can be made to work.

This is a great topic that is so often overlooked. I've harped on this before, and will continue to push the issue with my own students. Practicing playing softly is extremely important and also extremely beneficial to embouchure development and pitch security.

I didn't discover this until late in my undergraduate years when I had the chance to play the tuba/contrabassoon part on the Strauss Serenade for Winds, Op. 7. Trying to keep a balance with only a few woodwinds and horns while maintaining pitch integrity in a quite low tessitura is an extreme challenge (not unlike "X-Games" for tuba playing). The only nugget I can share from that experience was that it helped me to really drop the jaw during the breath to make my "chops chamber" as big as possible...in this way, I was able to use a very large volume of air at a soft volume to help prevent the insecure feeling of almost "losing" the note. I find that at both extremes of volume a large volume of air is essential (this defies logic to some extent, but nevertheless is true for me).

In the full ensemble realm, I am reminded of a live performance by the Count Basie Band I heard at Interlochen in the summer of 1983 (one of Basie's last such performances). Those guys could really play soft! It sucks you in to listening really hard, and then they come back and smack you in the face with the biggest fortissimo...great stuff! As I sit in with the local college jazz ensemble one day a week, I often find myself wishing the band could "get it" and understand just how cool a truly soft dynamic can be.

I try to practice both, but latley I've just been playing loud especially since we are playing Mars and 1812 overture for the next concert (so I'm having fun doing it to!). When I'm teaching middle school kids I try to get them to find their limits volume wise. I never try to get them to Blat, but a good big full tone. Then I tell them what dynamic I think it is, usually it is around mf-f range then I try to get them to play FF. Somtimes it works and somtimes it doesn't . A professor told me about a month ago that practicing soft playing will benefit my loud playing and vise versa. Hopefully it's helping .

My thoughts, worth what you paid for them:

I think that too many people get 'hung up' on the idea of playing 'softly.' 'Soft' and 'loud' are not, in a linguisitc sense, opposites. In my playing, I try to make sure that I play 'quiet' and 'loud,' and that I can play both within a spectrum of tonal colors ranging from 'hard' to 'soft'.

In other words, I think it is very important to learn to play quietly, and I personally spend a great deal of time working on exactly that. I also, however, work on making dynamic level and tone color independent variables in my playing. This, really, makes playing quietly much easier and more secure for me.

I don't mean to misquote, but I believe it was Mr. Pokorny who said (and I paraphrase, I'm sure), to make sure you can play loud enough to not limit the hard brass and play quiet enough to not limit the low woodwinds and strings.

Glaucon wrote:My thoughts, worth what you paid for them:

I think that too many people get 'hung up' on the idea of playing 'softly.' 'Soft' and 'loud' are not, in a linguisitc sense, opposites.

Last time I checked, the syntagm "soft" was polysemous, and last I checked, one of the sememes of "soft" is:

3. of a sound, the voice, etc.: Low, quite, subdued; not loud, harsh or rough. Also, melodious, pleasing to the ear, sweet. -- Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford University Press, 1971, p. 2904.

Given that semantics is a subdomain of linguistics and given the semantic domain in which the syntagms "soft" and "loud" are being employed in this thread, "soft" and "loud" most certainly ARE opposites in a linguistic sense.

Glaucon wrote:I think that too many people get 'hung up' on the idea of playing 'softly.' 'Soft' and 'loud' are not, in a linguisitc sense, opposites. In my playing, I try to make sure that I play 'quiet' and 'loud,' and that I can play both within a spectrum of tonal colors ranging from 'hard' to 'soft'.

I like this.

The older I get, the more I find that the majority of my notes played in band/orchestra are "quiet" (or, at least, should be quiet).

Jens Björn-Larsen discussed quiet dynamics in his masterclass at ITEC this past summer. I can't find my notes, so this is a paraphrase (that is probably mostly incorrect, of course): Play a quiet dynamic and diminuendo until the vibration stops, but do not stop moving the air. Continue to change your wind as if you are playing softer and softer. When you run out of breath or your air column stops moving, try to start from there (using as little air as possible) and gradually "crescendo" the air until a vibration starts. The goal of this exercise is to find the point in which your chops can start/stop the vibration and to push that point lower in order to lower the decibel of the quietest possible sound.

When doing exercises like these, we must remember to focus on the dynamic of the sound instead of the characteristics of the air. Otherwise, one will probably end up playing the same volume with different levels of air.

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bloke wrote: We both learned (and this is the truth ) how to blow out matches (held just at the bell opening) with extremely loud/short/explosively-played pitches.

This does seem to be the trick to playing softly.

tubashaman2 wrote:I thought this would help

http://tubanews.com/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=86" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Written recently by Roger Bobo, and has a lot of good stuff in it with a lot of pedagogy

Enough said

Nice link, James...good stuff.

Welcome back.

I LOVE IT when tubenet topics coincide with what is going on in my playing regime.

Honestly, I have been a WEAK soft player. It has never quite been my forte (no pun intended), but I have spent the last two weeks focusing greatly upon it. I have sat down and really hit the Roger Bobo breath control exercises (you know, the clarkish/arbanish ones), that are done on one breath, as slow as possible, as softly as possible with no bubble in the slurs.

The things that just two weeks of working on these have done to my playing, are GREAT. It has helped my confidence at the lower dynamics, made my embouchure more efficient, helped me with breathing, helped with relaxation... it really has made me realize how much of a meathead player I can be.

I'm no virtuoso, but I know that a two week focus on soft playing has helped me leaps and bounds!

As Americans, we focus on bigger, faster, louder, higher... these things that have made us a great country, have led to instilling a lack of tact in immature musicians like myself. Our stereotypical mindset on life has matriculated into the playing of the tuba.

the elephant wrote:In school, Don Little had some of us working on very soft attacks and very soft control by starting out a tone with air only and practicing starting the tone niente and with no attack at all. Start with air and try to start the tone from zero, from nothing. Most players will have a sound that suddenly, unexpectedly pops out from the air into being and that is very noticeable. Starting the tone from air is very tricky and requires a lot of what bloke is describing - absolute relaxation. You must have a very secure buzz and tonal concept and you must absolutely hear the correct pitch in your head and be set to reproduce that pitch exactly. Bring it up to about mf and then fade back out to niente. It must not wobble or waver in any way or you must start over. It is very frustrating. It will always be a bit frustrating. But with work you will master (sort of) the trick of very soft entrances and fade outs.

Hmm ... something like this?

Dr Sloan,
I have found the exercises in Roger Bobo's Mastering the Tuba to provide all the secrets to soft playing and to dynamic range expansion in general. The "basic warm up" section of long and tongued tones includes several dynamic flexibility exercises that have really changed the way I think/play and made me realize the integration between wind (in and out) and embouchure. Move on to the breath control exercises and even more "secrets" are revealed. The text in the book is excellent both from a technical and inspirational point of view and in every single exercise he is explicit on where to breathe which I find has really opened my eyes to playing the tuba musically (as opposed to the page after page of noodling exercises that most books contain). This may be heresy but, in my opinion, diligent application of Arnold Jacobs' philosophies to playing the exercises in Roger Bobo's book is the true path to tuba enlightenment.

Edit to answer the actual questions: I practice dynamics every day, my experience has been that I have more control over the sound of a group by being able to play softly with good sound and pitch than I could ever have by playing loudly. There are probably too many "community" tuba players who think/do the complete opposit of this.

Regards,

Bob Sadler

Bob Sadler wrote:Edit to answer the actual questions: I practice dynamics every day, my experience has been that I have more control over the sound of a group by being able to play softly with good sound and pitch than I could ever have by playing loudly. There are probably too many "community" tuba players who think/do the complete opposite of this.

Truer words ne'er spake.

The problem is that it only takes one low-brass player to completely undermine the musical things attempted by other players, if that player does not embrace the "do no harm" policy. Playing mf when the dynamic is p or pp is doing harm, and the guy who can actually play piano might as well pack up his tuba and go home at that point.

The lesser players often render the better players powerless to explore their additional abilities in support of the musical goals of the group. As one who has usually been the lesser player, this has been an important principle for me.

Even when we do play loudly, I'd rather do my best to keep the tone focused and clear. I don't mind a little edge, but I can't stand it when my sound spreads. My experience is that the tubas are often asked to balance a band that is already playing two dynamic levels beyond its abilities. One reason they do is because their quiet bits aren't quiet enough. Some of that could be helped by reducing the numbers for the quiet bits (especially where the music requests it), but I don't know many community band tuba players who can attach any useful meaning to "one player". Again, the better players are the ones who are usually put in the position of laying out to try to minimize the damage to the overall sound of the group.

The problem in community bands is not methods for playing softly. It's commitment to and understanding of the musical product of the ensemble.

Rick "whose conductor asks for less volume 1000 times for every time he asks for more" Denney

The problem getting a community band to play soft rests, in my experiences, with the guy on the podium. How many of you have heard this one before...

"If you can't hear the oboe soloist, you're playing too loud."

What a banal attempt at a solution that doesn't cut to the problem at all...the one or two people that can't be "bothered" to cut their volume or lay out altogether. What if you're not playing at all and can't "hear" the oboe soloist? Sheesh...

Rick Denney wrote: The problem is that it only takes one low-brass player to completely undermine the musical things attempted by other players, if that player does not embrace the "do no harm" policy. Playing mf when the dynamic is p or pp is doing harm, and the guy who can actually play piano might as well pack up his tuba and go home at that point.

AMEN!!! I've been there many times.

Rick Denney wrote: The lesser players often render the better players powerless to explore their additional abilities in support of the musical goals of the group.

Yep!

Rick Denney wrote: Some of that could be helped by reducing the numbers for the quiet bits (especially where the music requests it), but I don't know many community band tuba players who can attach any useful meaning to "one player". Again, the better players are the ones who are usually put in the position of laying out to try to minimize the damage to the overall sound of the group.

Unfortunately, this is also true.

Rick Denney wrote: The problem in community bands is not methods for playing softly. It's commitment to and understanding of the musical product of the ensemble.

Right, again!

Rick, I see you are making certain we all know why you are the "Resident Genius."

GPT wrote:As principal tubist in my high school's top band, I spend no time practicing playing softly. When I do play softly, my section gets yelled at for not playing. Although I sometimes enjoy playing the same pitch as the air conditioner really softly when no one's supposed to be playing--no one ever notices.

The point is to be to be able to effectively play softly when you have to. If all I did was play in the youth orchestra, I would be the same way, but I like playing in the quintet and practicing solo literature because that makes me have to sound great playing softly. Like Jacobs said, we have to create the challenge for ourselves because what we do on stage probably won't bring it up.

the elephant wrote:There is far too much in that thread for me to read all of it and figure out exactly where you are drawing a comparison. If you mean just Caruso in general, then NO. I have done his book. It is a method. I am speaking of a single exercise that is helpful for this and not an entire mindset as in the Caruso method.

Or are you speaking about my quintet workout that I shared? That was more of a contest, an anti Higher, Faster, Louder thing…

Be specific, please. This is not Caruso. Try it. It is much less developed and basic. And it works quite well. I do this a lot prior to performing Tchaik 6.

This:

Low pppppp breath attacks…actually, he used breath attacks on fairly quiet notes all throughout the middle and low registers, but if you were able to do this particular exercise, it was the most effective version of them...went like this.

On a low E (or any note in the 2nd partial if the E didn't work), start blowing just a very small amount of air into the horn and then try to sneak into sounding the note at the absolute quietest dynamic you can manage. A whisper, a HINT of a note, maybe one only you can hear or feel. Play it until you run out of air and repeat a bunch of times.

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When you got good at this, then [Caruso]'d say "OK, now do the breath attack WITHOUT any air before it. Don't sneak up on it; just play it in good time."

GPT wrote:I guess that's what I'll be doing for two and a half weeks.

Two and a half weeks?

Elephant,

I don't know why you're hung up on Caruso or why you're so dead certain Mclaugh has some hidden agenda, but leave Caruso out of it and look at the exercise described in Mclaugh's post. Caruso has absolutley NOTHING to do with it, except that he's the person who Sam Burtis says he learned the exercise he describes from.

Here's the exercise you described:

the elephant wrote: In school, Don Little had some of us working on very soft attacks and very soft control by starting out a tone with air only and practicing starting the tone niente and with no attack at all. Start with air and try to start the tone from zero, from nothing. Most players will have a sound that suddenly, unexpectedly pops out from the air into being and that is very noticeable. Starting the tone from air is very tricky and requires a lot of what bloke is describing - absolute relaxation. You must have a very secure buzz and tonal concept and you must absolutely hear the correct pitch in your head and be set to reproduce that pitch exactly. Bring it up to about mf and then fade back out to niente. It must not wobble or waver in any way or you must start over. It is very frustrating. It will always be a bit frustrating. But with work you will master (sort of) the trick of very soft entrances and fade outs.

Here's the exercise described in Mclaugh's post:

Low pppppp breath attacks…actually, he used breath attacks on fairly quiet notes all throughout the middle and low registers, but if you were able to do this particular exercise, it was the most effective version of them...went like this.

On a low E (or any note in the 2nd partial if the E didn't work), start blowing just a very small amount of air into the horn and then try to sneak into sounding the note at the absolute quietest dynamic you can manage. A whisper, a HINT of a note, maybe one only you can hear or feel. Play it until you run out of air and repeat a bunch of times. ...

When you got good at this, then ... do the breath attack WITHOUT any air before it. Don't sneak up on it; just play it in good time.

Soft attacks and control at soft dynamics ... start with air and ease into the note ... practice diligently until you master the trick ....

Are there differences? Sure: yours emphasizes the release as well as the attack, while Sam's focuses specifically on the attack; but both employ a similar technique to learning soft attacks and control at soft dynamics.