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I took a chance on a Schiller American Heritage (4V Rotary).
After adjusting the valves (bumpers were way too big), it play quite well. Sound is big, tuning is fine. I have some ideas for modifications.
At $1600 case included, it's hard to resist.

I, too, have been tempted. How much does it weigh? What are your ideas for modifications?

Mike H.

Looking at the detail photo of the valve paddles -http://www.schillerinstruments.com/prod ... otary.html does the pull ring on the 2nd slide also hit the base of the thumb when it is in position?

I have never played a horn with this layout - how is the "spit drainage?"

There's no problem with this horn but maybe...

My modifications would be: buy another one and get it cut to C, reverse the rotation on valve 3 and 4 and maybe change the 4th rotor for a more open type valve (Miller if Miller ever answers my emails or Hagmann if René builds me one for less than my car is worth or maybe Kanstul who built my absolutely great George Roberts 1670 bass trombone), increase bore from 0.770 to 0.827 for the 4th valve and add a 5th valve.

I also bought a Schiller .547 bore trombone with a Thayer (copy) valve for $700 ( w/3 lead pipes and case). The slide, right out of the box, works great. No great difference between the leadpipes but it plays pretty well. Harmonics are in tune.
I just tried a Shires beside it. Of course the Shires plays better much better. Don't fool yourself.

[quote="Sylvano"]There's no problem with this horn but maybe...

My modifications would be: buy another one and get it cut to C

I talked this morning with this company in Wisconsin. The guy says they are expecting in April a few Schiller five valve C tubas. Expected price is around $1800.

Sylvano wrote:I took a chance on a Schiller American Heritage (4V Rotary).
After adjusting the valves (bumpers were way too big), it play quite well. Sound is big, tuning is fine. I have some ideas for modifications.
At $1600 case included, it's hard to resist.

Did you order it on ebay or did you pick one out from Jim Laabs?

I was thinking of getting one too. I would love to get a Miraphone 5V BBb 1291,
but I would have to save up for a while.
I was hoping to hear more from Jethro about his "Schillbrunner" experiences.
I have a M&M that is made by the same chinese instrument maker,
and after 4+ years of municipal band rehearsels and performances,
I have had no mechanical or laquer trouble.

Name me one horn (or woodwinds) that is perfectly in tune with anyone who plays it? My blowing, my ears and someone else blowing and sense of intonation will be different.
I'm not about to write a spreadsheet of how many cents each notes are off. I just play the damn thing.
When I say the tuning is fine, I mean the horn doesn't have unreasonable tuning problems.
Again it's a very, very inexpensive instrument. Sure my PT-20P plays easier and the Shires trombone plays better.
My old Rudy 5/4 (traded 4 years ago) had its tuning problems and it was a top quality hand built horn. I played a HB2P for years and it I had to learn to play the horn in tune. My first F (45SLP) had its tuning problem and my Firebird also has its problems and these are not cheap horns to buy.
I'm not a fan of pulling slides except for the 4th when playing C# or something below F (on a C horn) thanks to my friend Scott who told me 20 some years ago "when are you gonna learn to play the horn in tune instead of pulling and pushing?"


The scary part about this is how German makers will be able to survive selling horns to the masses for $7K-12K.

I TOTALLY agree with Bloke on this one. One of the guys in the community band I play with bought one of the Schiller Heritage BBb rotary tubas.... the large one with the 18" bell and 36" overall length. I describe the horn because it doesn't have a model number OR a serial number. He bought it from a private seller. NOT through the normal channels we see on-line. The horn is waaaaay sharp in all registers and will require a longer main slide to be playable. I contacted the email on the Schiller web page and it turns out that it's actually Jim Laabs Music Store in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. Troy there has agreed to arrange for a longer main tuning slide. If all of this works out... my friend got one heck of a deal. However... if he can't obtain a longer main slide (or I can't locate the materials to build him one), the horn is basically unplayable.... still a bit sharp with the main slide on the verge of falling out.

It's been my experience that every once in a while a few horns escape to the US market that are copies of horns that were originally built to higher pitch standards. This even happened to REAL Mirafone 191 tubas at one time and Mirafone responded with a longer tuning slide to fix the problem. I obtained one of these longer slides to fix a problem with an Allora 191... which is an Asian copy of the Mirafone 191.

The Schiller is built in China. That's not a problem for me as long as the importers and dealers are willing to step up to the plate and provide parts when problems arise. I'm not talking about just a longer tuning slide but things like pistons or rotors that can get damaged in school environments... and private use for that matter.

My advice??? Don't buy ANYTHING until you have actual experience with it and are assured that you can purchase parts when needed.