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Hey folks,

My wife and I are discussing adding a room onto our home, and in the process I'm thinking that it would be a neat idea to make the dimensions "optimal" for practicing. Practically speaking, I'm working towards getting a nice resonance for the low range of the horn (low C, low Bb) out of the room. I know we've had some pretty good technical discussions lately on the waveform characteristics of F tuba low ranges, but has anyone here done any practical implementations of how to design the "perfect tuba room"?

Before anyone mentions it, no I can't get her to let me build a Cathedral as an addition.

build it away from your neighbours...

Neil Bliss wrote:Hey folks,

My wife and I are discussing adding a room onto our home, and in the process I'm thinking that it would be a neat idea to make the dimensions "optimal" for practicing. Practically speaking, I'm working towards getting a nice resonance for the low range of the horn (low C, low Bb) out of the room. I know we've had some pretty good technical discussions lately on the waveform characteristics of F tuba low ranges, but has anyone here done any practical implementations of how to design the "perfect tuba room"?

Before anyone mentions it, no I can't get her to let me build a Cathedral as an addition.

The ideal shape is bigger than you would be willing to build onto a house. So any possibility is a compromise. But if you can build a room such that you could stretch a 32' rope out in several directions without it going slack, then you'll hear most of what there is down to the pedal register.

A taller ceiling does much more good than a bigger floor. My current practice room (the living room of my house) is the best I've ever had, and it has a sloped ceiling that rises from 8 feet on one side to 18 feet on the other side, where it opens into a loft on the second floor that opens out into the living room. From there, the ceiling continues up another four feet to a peak 22 feet above the living-room floor. Then, it slopes down to the far wall of the loft, which is about 12 feet back from where it opens out above the living room. That gives me a maximum dimension of about 25 feet, but there are diagonals that will accommodate that 32-foot rope and keep it taut.

In the other direction, the room is 24 feet long, and the loft somewhat less.

An important feature of that design is the sloping ceiling. The sound doesn't bounce right back down on me, and I get to hear it in the room a bit. The room also has few parallel surfaces and lots of things in the room to break up echo.

So, I would say make it as big as you can, with a high, sloping ceiling and minimize parallel walls.

Rick "enjoying the current arrangement except when the wife wants to watch TV in the adjacent room" Denney

Rick is correct in that the optimal room is far larger than what you would imagine.

Because of that my suggestions will lie more in a realm of aesthetics.

If this addition is a single room addition with three exterior walls, make sure you have plenty of windows. Big windows. This way you can practice while enjoying the view outside. Big windows on the South in the summer really help with keeping the room warm.

Do try to make the ceilings a bit taller, like 9 or 10 feet if possible. This way you do have some room for sound to expand. Make sure plenty of light is designed into the electrical. It is easier to put in a dimmer than add lighting after the fact. If you put in a ceiling fan, never play beneath it. If you can pitch it, as Rick mentions, it will be better sonically.

Hardwood floors are nice, and do like to resonate with the tuba. Laminate will be much more dead. I am curious as to how bamboo would act, as it might be a good acoustical choice. However, make sure you find a nice (inexpensive) area rug to put where you will practice to soak up tuba juice and also help dampen vibrations coming through the chair.

With the bare walls you have, maybe use some heavier insulation and thicker sheetrock. This will muffle the sound a bit more before getting outside to the neighbors. Also helps keep the room temperature better. Keeping them from being parallel (also as Rick mentions) doesn't necessarily mean being skew. Stepping the walls in or out will help. I would personally add "built-in" bookcases that stagger the wall faces. This is not only architecturally more interesting, but practical as well. Books will help deaden the room and diffuse the sound.

Make sure there are a few pieces of soft furniture around to help break up the reverberations.

the elephant wrote:(was that where you got that number, Rick? It is an interesting idea, for certain.)

32 feet is the approximate lambda(length of one complete oscillation) for the fundamental of a CC tuba.

Just make sure any nuts and bolts are fastened tightly, and avoid florescent lights at all costs. (the rattling is unbearable!)

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:

the elephant wrote:(was that where you got that number, Rick? It is an interesting idea, for certain.)

32 feet is the approximate lambda(length of one complete oscillation) for the fundamental of a CC tuba.

That dimension is about twice the length of the open bugle of whatever horn you are playing. In the case of a BBb tuba, it's 36 feet.

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:32 feet is the approximate lambda(length of one complete oscillation) for the fundamental of a CC tuba.

Stupid question: is that "fundamental" meaning the pedal C of a CC tuba?

(I *told* you it was a stupid question.)

Wade, good point about the two different purposes for a practice zone. I've already got a pretty good room for a "super dry" sound. I'd be looking for more of a large room to have things sound as full and rich as possible.

Neil Bliss wrote:Stupid question: is that "fundamental" meaning the pedal C of a CC tuba?

Yes. I find (without really thinking through why) that tuba sound with wavelengths longer than the available maximum dimension of the room tend to all sound the same. The smaller the room, the bigger the chunk of the low register that will sound the same between your teeny F tuba and you BAT. Point being: Bigger is better.

Wade makes a good distinction, but I note that you used "music room" rather than "practice room". I want the room where I play to be suitable for two people to play and enjoy the resulting sound, or for someone to listen and enjoy the music (assuming a good musician happens to appear). That seems to be your aim as well. But there's no way to achieve the resonance and reverberation of a concert hall in your house, unless you have means beyond most of us, so I doubt it would be possible to have a room that is excessively player-favoring.

Size brings reverberation. Parallel walls bring echo. The first is good, the second is bad. If you end up with parallel surfaces, park furniture or something unflat in front of them.

Rick "who hung an area rug on one end of a room to kill echo, but heavy pleated drapes work even better" Denney

Yes, because just like the pitch, the requirements for proper resonance of notes without dropouts or "standing waves" becomes exponentially larger as you descend.

My living room is 20'X17', with a "cathedral" ceiling rising from the standard 8' to 11' at the center of the room. It is still too small, inspite of it being open to the kitchen and a hallway down to the bedrooms for anything below 1(pull)34 near pedal Db on a BBb horn to come out with any consistency, and true pedal BBb is non-existant without both the front and back doors open to change the character of the room from a "tuned port" to approacing an "infinite baffle."

OTOH, in the large university concert hall where the university community band concerts are held, in the chorale section of the West Side Story medley a couple of years ago I dropped the final down the octave to 234 near pedal D, and it sounded like all the pedal stops had been pulled on an organ, as playing down the octave provided the foundation for the rest of the brass to line up the chord, so in addition to the additive timbre of the solid chord, there were both additive harmonic reinforcing tones and subtractive difference tones heard and felt.

groovy ideas!

currently I practice in the garage, which has a sloped roof from about 9' over the door to about 22' at the back wall. there's lots of stuff to minimize the paralell lines and buffer the concrete floor, it's a pretty live sound above a low BBb (not a pedal).

makes me think I should move some stuff around and play with the sound a bit.