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I'll bet the French Horn players didn't go out for beer, red meat, and talk about their cars afterwards either. Yikes, what a life that would be!

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Dennis Brain, was reputed to slip out of the symphony between numbers for a big meal, and to keep the latest issue of "Autocar" on his stand while he was playing. He also had a reputation for carelessness, evidenced by a badly dented horn.
He picked the wrong instrument. Maybe he can be granted posthumous honorary tuba fellowship

Looks like the merry van has a flat tyre.

the elephant wrote:6. She plays an M series 8D, having dumped her Geyer-esque boutique horn. I made her sit and listen to that damned thing until she decided that I was right about the sound being thin and "beady" compared to the great Cleveland/Szell 8D sound. I have corrupted her. (Heh, heh, heh… )

Well done, sir! Proud of you. Keep up the good work.

Are you guys saying that the Geyer sounds "cheesy"? (Sorry -- couldn't resist)

A very close friend in high school had the Conn and sounded big and round. A few others in college had the Holton/Farkas/Geyer wrap and sounded pinched.

Being a former professional horn player that has attended a few of the International Horn Symposiums, I can tell you there is definately a elephant room, but not like what I saw at TMEA around the tuba exhibits. Horn players are a different bread for sure. I can tell you that the person with the principle horn mentality is closer to the beer drinking, car talking kind of guy then the horn player with the section player mind set. I was definitely a principle horn guy and had no qualms playing the Strauss excerpts or the Call in the elephant room, though it is considered bad taste to do so. You wouldn't want to show off, which is how it is perceived with that crowd.

As far as the kruspe vs geyer thing. I kind of split the difference. The problem with the 8D, is the slots are wide and playing cleanly in technical passages is extremely difficult. The thing that put me off the 8D is actually sitting next to 8D players and hearing the mess that came out of thier bells during technical passages. Muddy and all over the place. The geyer allows a cleaner/crisper response and thus cleaner playing without extra ordinary effort during technical passages. I played a yamaha 868D, which is a tightly wrapped kruspe model that centered great and had great response. Sound was closer to the geyer probably. It didn't sound like an 8D, but for me that is a good thing.

As far as sound differences. Phil Meyers of the NYPhil did an extensive blind comparison of his 8D and a Schmid ( geyer ) that he changed to. Where he had people sitting int he audience while he sat on stage playing either horn, and they liked the geyer.

For me it was a matter of playability. The average Conn 8D sucks balls on the playability side of things. Which is what I hated playing one and playing next to one.

-James

You have to also consider that being a tuba player you are hearing the sound of the horn straight out of the bell, being that you are usually sitting somewhere behind them. The sound in the hall is much different and I bet you'd have a much harder time telling the difference sitting the the back of the hall, then you do sitting two rows behind them in the ensemble.

Bob1062 wrote: However, trumpeters and trombonists almost always play in a section with others of their ilk and I hear that trombone shows like this are quite loud.

There may be a difference between section and herd.

I was recently speaking with an instrument repairman who took a moment to expound on players of various instruments, and I got the impression he might have held trombone players in particularly high esteem as customers. Know what they want, know what they don't need, etc. (And their checks are good, which was a surprise, but there you go.)

iiipopes wrote:Are you guys saying that the Geyer sounds "cheesy"? (Sorry -- couldn't resist)

A very close friend in high school had the Conn and sounded big and round. A few others in college had the Holton/Farkas/Geyer wrap and sounded pinched.

Umm, the Holton Farkas wrap is the same as the CONN. They are both Kruspe. Just FYI

NDSPTuba wrote:

iiipopes wrote:Are you guys saying that the Geyer sounds "cheesy"? (Sorry -- couldn't resist)

A very close friend in high school had the Conn and sounded big and round. A few others in college had the Holton/Farkas/Geyer wrap and sounded pinched.

Umm, the Holton Farkas wrap is the same as the CONN. They are both Kruspe. Just FYI

I'm following this thread with interest, because my oldest brother plays an 8d (big, full, round sound) and my other brother plays a Holton (more core, penetrating sound), and I've always wondered what about them makes them sound so different, because they look very similar to my untrained amateur's eye. I'm wanting to go lay them side by side and check the bell flare. . .

My wife retired from the army bands as a horn player. She played an Alexander 103, never liked Conns, although they sure could throw a fat sound downrange. She is "reformed" now, and is a trombone performance major. She never fit in with that "introverted" crowd anyway, was a MONSTER 4th horn player. Now plays a Shires axial-flow T-bone and a Conn 88HO. Thank goodness, she's much happier-we've commented how she was a trombone player the whole time and was just playing the "wrong" instrument.

tokuno wrote:
I'm following this thread with interest, because my oldest brother plays an 8d (big, full, round sound) and my other brother plays a Holton (more core, penetrating sound), and I've always wondered what about them makes them sound so different, because they look very similar to my untrained amateur's eye. I'm wanting to go lay them side by side and check the bell flare. . .

The difference is mainly in the mouthpipe taper, the conn has a sewer pipe in the horn world for a mouthpipe, ie is opens up to full bore size quickly. The big thing about the Holton in my not so humble opinion is they suck. I never picked one up to play that I wasn't twice as motivated to put back down after the first trip to the high range. They are as stuffy as you can get in the high range. And to think I played one for all my high school and freshman year of college. It was before I new any better. Build quality is always an issue with them as well. You can find a new Conn that is a descent player, but it is the older Conns that are coveted. They go for more than the new ones, lol. The Conns do have a bigger bell flare than the Holtons also. I prefer the kruspe wrap, but I don't care for the Conns for reasons stated before. I prefer the Yamahas and Hoyers over the Conns. Holton isn't even a consideration.

3..2..1.. Here I is.

Most of ya'll have said it all already. Frankly, when I read the post, what I wanted to ask was, given how I am perceived *here*, which do ya'll think *I* am? Tuba player or horn player?

I'll clue ya. I'm still about 1/10 fiddle player, and THOSE are a really, really twitchy bunch. Other than that, about half and half horn player and tuba player probably. I love beer, love hamburgers, but can eat neither since the food allergies went off the scale. Love cats too but don't eat them.

BTW, horn players DO have a hell of an elephant room (as somebody else said) if you go to the big conferences. But there is a bit more competition than I thought when I first entered the horn world. It was so much less competitive than the violin world, that for a few years I missed it. I since decided that a lot of the violin competition comes from there being so many people all on the same part, they can't help but strive to see who's on top of the heap.

I *hate* that hand-too-far-up-the-bell sound, but I think that is exactly what it is. Maybe the Conns have such big bell throats that it takes a huger hand than most to get that stuffed up sound? I recently heard an Eric Ruske recording on the radio playing Strauss, and I had it as Barry Tuckwell because of the hand-too-far-up-the bell sound. Was wrong. I like Hermann Bauman's sound, I like Marty Hackelman's sound, the best. Doesn't matter what wrap you play, you can't close the bell all the way off and you have to BLOW into the thing.


MA

MaryAnn wrote:3..2..1.. Here I is.

Most of ya'll have said it all already. Frankly, when I read the post, what I wanted to ask was, given how I am perceived *here*, which do ya'll think *I* am? Tuba player or horn player?

I'll clue ya. I'm still about 1/10 fiddle player, and THOSE are a really, really twitchy bunch.

'snip'


MA

I feel ya on the fiddle players. our eldest has been playing for several years now, and is starting to develop some real diva-ness to both her attitude and playing. it's good on the playing....less so on the 'tude.

Was the low attention a matter of bad weather conditions? Normally I skip postings on regional horn events, but I just saw that an event in Oklahoma will not be visited by its full potential of attenders due to bad weather.

Klaus

Has anyone researched brass genetics? My wife (ex-horn) and I (tuba) produced three sons, one horn, one trombone and one cello. (Lest you think that the third one fell far from the metal tree, he used to give performances on the musical saw.) All three enjoy beer.

In the late 70's the was a Conical Tube Society at the University of Wisconsin, presumably the brainchild of horn prof Douglas Hill and whoever was teaching tuba there at the time. I did not go there, but visited there often and I'd see the signs hanging in the Music building. Any former Badgers here that know what I'm talking about?

Bob1062 wrote:

jonesbrass wrote:My wife retired from the army bands as a horn player. She played an Alexander 103, never liked Conns, although they sure could throw a fat sound downrange. She is "reformed" now, and is a trombone performance major. She never fit in with that "introverted" crowd anyway, was a MONSTER 4th horn player. Now plays a Shires axial-flow T-bone and a Conn 88HO. Thank goodness, she's much happier-we've commented how she was a trombone player the whole time and was just playing the "wrong" instrument.

Now to get her into bass trombone....



OR... you could get a new Cerveny valved F bass for the TWO of you to "share!"

Too late . . . we're shopping for a bass trombone, for both of us to share, or possibly a cimbasso just for me, or maybe a nice euph . . .

imperialbari wrote:Was the low attention a matter of bad weather conditions? Normally I skip postings on regional horn events, but I just saw that an event in Oklahoma will not be visited by its full potential of attenders due to bad weather.

Klaus

Klaus,

As a native Okie, I can tell ya: there are about 30 REALLY nice days in Oklahoma weather-wise (usually no three in a row). The other 11 months of the year it's either too ^%&$ hot, too &%#* cold, too &%*$ windy, or a tornado is taking you away to The Merrie Olde Land of Oz. I laugh at those that use weather as an excuse for anything. Pffft. Pansies one and all, I say.

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And, to stay on topic, when I was in college, the horn player as a whole were the strangest section in every ensemble.