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What are some thoughts on thse tubas?
- Are they professional quality?
- Are they made well?

Lotsa love for the Piggy lately, check it out.

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If I were looking seriously to downsize, (put some $ in my pocket and still have a nice horn) I think a Piggy would be my choice after reading that topic.

My first CC horn was a Piggy. It was my only horn for about 10 years. I used it for solos, quintet, orchestra, and wind band. It had a few intonation issues, nothing that couldn't be overcome. The thing I loved was the sound, big and rich, dark. Somebody once told me it was a sound you could dive into. That being said, I think the quality control was virtually nonexistent. The good ones are good, the bad ones......I'll leave it at that. It was a good horn for the money and there have been many times that I wish I had kept it.

The Piggy has its fans, but you should play one first. I bought one a few weeks ago; returned it in 2 days. The valves were good, the high range was very good, low range so-so, and intonation was terrific. I didn't like the ergonomics, but the biggest problem was the sound. I thought it was tinny, lacking weight. It had less punch to it than my F tuba, so it didn't seem like an upgrade. I was looking for something that would stand out in an ensemble (I played an Alexander for 30 years), and the Piggy just didn't make the cut.

That said, I may be too choosy. It was not the worst tuba I could have found, just not the right feel for me.

Sandy Keathley

How would folks compare the Piggy to the Miraphone 191? . . assuming that both are new horns.

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a good Piggy is amazing.

a bad one can be a miserable experience.

Play it first, get someone who is used to CC if you aren't. Have a tuner and a couple of different style mouthpieces.

I got to play the first batch of Piggys that were shipped to Walter Sear in 1972. Cerveny called them Opera Models because they are/were Kaiser C tubas, with an .835 bore with a small bell for the sometimes cramped conditions in the pit. John Fletcher dubbed them Piggys because to him that's what they looked like. I played one on the circus for awhile and it really had no drawbacks. I would never buy a new horn without trying a few of that model but I lived one hour from Mr. Sear's shop and he always had 10 or so of each model of Cerveny there to play. When people say they are inconsistant I would certainly agree but I've also played some York Nirschels and they covered the good to crap spectrum pretty well. People don't seem to say anything about the playability of ten thousand doller plus "handmade" horns that you order from the builder. I guess it's a combination of embarrasment and the hope of selling it to someone else who is fished in by the hype. So if you find a Piggy that you like the sound and response of you can't go wrong and don't sell it and join the legions of us that sold them and wish we hadn't. Ed

Hi Ed

EdFirth wrote:I got to play the first batch of Piggys that were shipped to Walter Sear in 1972. Cerveny called them Opera Models because they are/were Kaiser C tubas, with an .835 bore with a small bell for the sometimes cramped conditions in the pit. John Fletcher dubbed them Piggys because to him that's what they looked like. I played one on the circus for awhile and it really had no drawbacks. I would never buy a new horn without trying a few of that model but I lived one hour from Mr. Sear's shop and he always had 10 or so of each model of Cerveny there to play. When people say they are inconsistant I would certainly agree but I've also played some York Nirschels and they covered the good to crap spectrum pretty well. People don't seem to say anything about the playability of ten thousand doller plus "handmade" horns that you order from the builder. I guess it's a combination of embarrasment and the hope of selling it to someone else who is fished in by the hype. So if you find a Piggy that you like the sound and response of you can't go wrong and don't sell it and join the legions of us that sold them and wish we hadn't. Ed

what a selection!
In 1972 the number of tubas was 120! unheard of at the time. maybe still. The first 4 batches of the 1024s Piggy were handmade A combination on the 1024 and the 68c models. Using parts of the Bb and Ctubas. those first horns were great. Th ePiggy of today although now made on presses is still in my mind the best all around horn for a working player. there are now several mutations of the original .Intrestingly the Cheaper the horn the better they seem to play.
I belive it was my plastic pig sitting on the old film mix console that inspired Fletcher . He was the best.
I still have many of the protype parts in my basement from the many experments. We could never get them to make a BBb.

Its so true in the tuba world . some have to pay $$$ or the horn stinks. Ive played many 10k +horns that s**k The original Piggy at 750 woooooo!!!!

Ray Noguera

pigman wrote:Its so true in the tuba world . some have to pay $$$ or the horn stinks. Ive played many 10k +horns that s**k The original Piggy at 750 woooooo!!!!

Indeed. Let's see:
Besson: $711 + @$300 in repairs and $100 mouthpiece;
186: $1950 + @$200 in ergonomic tweaks and a couple of leaks that developed later and $300 for three mouthpieces for different applications, one of them sent for a custom rim contour;
38K: $200 for necessary repairs including a new receiver; $100 on a mouthpiece.

And then there are the "hobby" part of the expenditures of trying out then reselling a few different mouthpieces, and the usual maintenence items of oil, felts, corks, bumpers, water keys, etc., that we all incur, but don't list in the capital investment.

One of these days the Besson and the 38K could have some elective cosmetics done to them, or maybe not, depending on how I feel next season and how the bank account looks next season, in any event no more than a few hundred.

That's less than $4000 to @$4500 if I have the elective repairs done for three immenently servicable instruments that can serve the entire range of indoor & outdoor concerts from quintet through all different sized bands and small orchestras, for at least the next couple of decades until I decide I just want to carry around something smaller, like a moderate sized Eb. By then, there will be a few St Pete Eefers out there which have been bought, used, tweaked, and showing up on the used market for @ $2500.

Since I'm more a BBb guy, I probably will not ever get a Piggy. The closest I have played to such an instrument that would be considered somewhere @ a 7/8 sized tuba would be a Yammy YCB 4-valve with the .689 bore and the smaller bell. But then again, if I get a pit orchestra gig worth my while, I'll never say "never."

Not meaning to hijack the thread, just to point out that I agree with the variability of quality, the need to try before you buy, and that there may also be some other instruments out there that will also serve the same purpose if the right Piggy just isn't out there to say (sorry, I can't resist, but meant in good fun) "Wee, wee, wee" all the way home to you.