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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... an03m.html" target="_blank

As someone who is still waiting for charges to be filed against the person who killed his fiancee, it's nice to see the legal system punish people. Although it's never enough to satisfy those who have lost, to at least see something happen makes me happy.

Here's hoping that more justice will be served soon!

Andy

Our judicial system is set up so that crimes that are reckless are punished less severely than crimes that are intentional. It is also set up to treat juvenile offenders as children, and incapable of forming any kind of criminal intent. There are 15 year olds that are children, and there are 15 year olds that are not. Our system is way behind where society has "evolved".

I cannot speak with authority on Washington jurisprudence and how their system is set up. I can speak from some experience in dealing with juvenile offenders and how unchildlike many of them are, and a sense of bewilderment that to intentionally cause the death of another human being results in less than a year in detention. Wade, I like your analysis. Tragedy and travesty.

Hope St. Peter likes tuba music!

Still it saddens one to see where our society has gone(and less guilty over leaving these generations all those trillions of debt).

Unnecessary.

The generation that is authorizing future enslavement via trillions in added debt is just as guilty, if not moreso for the human condition (moreso because they didn't relinquish inner violence within themselves with their added years). Senseless violence is a tragedy but to somehow use it as a justification for your own peace of mind over unrelated issues is rather ignorant and quite frankly abusive.

Chris "A member of 'those generations'"

Chris wrote:

Still it saddens one to see where our society has gone(and less guilty over leaving these generations all those trillions of debt).

Unnecessary.

The generation that is authorizing future enslavement via trillions in added debt is just as guilty, if not moreso for the human condition (moreso because they didn't relinquish inner violence within themselves with their added years). Senseless violence is a tragedy but to somehow use it as a justification for your own peace of mind over unrelated issues is rather ignorant and quite frankly abusive.

Chris "A member of 'those generations'"

You missed his point completely. Try again. And don't get offended so easily.

Nick "another member of 'those generations,' who thinks BBb Dave has a fair point"

I considered after posting that perhaps I missed the point.

I realize that the intentions are well of BBbDave. He admits feeling guilt over leaving debt, but does state that the negative impacts of the youth involved help subdue that guilt.

My post didn't rise out of 'offense' but instead to challenge the urge to place blame (which I failed to communicate). This situation sucks for all involved in Seattle (and ultimately for all of mankind). But it is not tied to, nor should it be a justification of the recent acts of Congress. It's easy to see all the things wrong in the world, but more challenging to see all the things right. The numbers are not available for the number of youth who are outstanding human beings...instead we here (as a result of the Tuba) know of the three individuals who are lacking. I feel sadness not for where 'our society has gone' but instead for the individuals involved in this case and for humanity as a whole. I know none of the people directly involved.... but I imagine that this has changed their life dramatically (we're all involved in some way..imagine if the "Tuba Man" changed a life who changed a life who changed a life who touched yours...that thought will never come to fruition as a result of his death). To seek 'justice' from the ignorant is for our own gratification. I think that the comments at the bottom of the article sum up what needs to be said. The urge to 'punish' these individuals is what I'm attacking here. It is that same urge to punish that draws connections between the troubled individuals of our species and their inheriting trillions of dollars of debt.

After re-reading my first post...it has a tone to it which is different from my intended meaning. I assure all that read there is no anger/rage, but instead a plea to recognize the sincerity of the situation and furthermore to cultivate a belief that the world is getting better, not worse (of which I believe the quoted remarks are missing). Just the fact that all of us, strangers, are able to discuss this topic via a bulletin board system set up for Tuba adventurers is a sign that the human race has in no way experienced its best years.

I stand by my comment, "Unnecessary." but hope that this post has helped to explain its origins.

I suspect, from his avatar, that BBb Dave and I see a segment of the population up close and personal that most folks only read about. Not surprisingly, that impacts how we view the world.

I have had a murderer answer the question "why did you kill him?" with a flat response "to see what it felt like." And the follow up "what did it feel like?" question was answered with "I don't know. Nuthin', I guess." Kid was 18. He is under a death sentance in Oregon.

The "how we got here" question is as multi faceted as is the "how will we solve it" question. It will take us all.

bearphonium wrote: The "how we got here" question is as multi faceted as is the "how will we solve it" question. It will take us all.

Amen!

Greg wrote: If the punishment isn't enough to PREVENT the crime, it needs to be re-considered.

Are we on politics yet? Simple/simplistic solutions for not particularly new societal problems?