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I just came back from my first rehearsal with a brass band in Osaka, Japan. We are rehearsing for a concert coming up on Saturday. I played my BE 983, and it was great! I have recently changed from a BE 982, and there is a remarkable improvement over my old horn.

I met the conductor, and he looked at my tuba a little weird. He said, "Huh, front-action valves..." wiggling his fingers. I didn't understand what he meant, but I just said, "Ya, heh."

At the break, he came up to me and complimented on my playing. He used words like, "smooth" "clean" and "tight", which I always thought were regarded as GOOD comments. Then he tells me that he doesn't want me to use my horn after tonight's rehearsal! He said (as well as he could in his broken english...) that he wanted his tubas to look the same, ie. point the same way etc. (BTW, the band owns their own set of Besson Tubas).

I really don't understand this logic. This perseption has only ever been with Brass Bands. Why???

This just isn't the case in Japan, but EVERYWHERE there is a brass band. The only exceptions I can think of are the Brass Band Of Battle Creek, and The Hanniford Street Silver Band in Toronto!

The difference between my instrument and the 'traditional' tubas in brass bands is not the make. In fact, Besson makes my 983, and the 981/982. It can't be pitch, because it is in Eb just like the rest of them! So what is the BIG problem???

Listen, I have been playing Tuba since I was 12 years old, and it has only EVER been in the brass band ensemble that the top priority for the tubas is looks - whether it be the colour of the finish, or which way it points, or something! I am sick and tired of being told that my tuba "points the 'wrong' way", or "the colour is 'wrong' - whether it be lacquer OR silver, depending on the colour of the other tubas!!! Since when are looks more important than sound! If you are into music, than the sound is supposed to be the most important, isn't it? I have yet to hear a VALID reason for the concern of the tubas in brass bands.

I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!

Please, if you have any REAL advice or opinion, hopefully from other brass banders, please help me understand this problem.

If this is a Japanese band and a Japanese conductor, my guess is that you will be upsetting the balance by playing a tuba not normally associated with British Brass Bands. Not the musical balance, the "wa" (if I remember the correct word), the harmony.

I understand that the Japanese (as a whole) admire the ability to blend into a group and work together, more than they admire an individual acheivement.

I would consent to the conductor's request with the idea of it being a cultural experience. It will also make the conductor happy and if it's a Japanese band, it will make the whole group more comfortable.

Tradition, plain and simple. Your horn wouldn't fly in England or anywhere else except America. Sometimes it's better just to enjoy the zen of the whole thing. Remember, you are a visitor, if you want to continue to be welcome, don't make waves. It's really that simple. Sorry, I don't feel your pain. Good luck, remember it's only music, not brain surgery, world peace, or chess.

Chuck

vmi5198 wrote:(BTW, the band owns their own set of Besson Tubas).

Bottom line right there. Lots of Yen invested... Looks, sound, tradition... Could be all sorts of things. Just go with it. I wish I could even FIND a British-style brass band to play with here. The few I know of are all full...

Louis

Welcone to the world of Brass Bands. Don't get me wrong, I've benn there, done that and even play in one on occassion. Here's the thing - at times you really have to wonder if some Brass Banders are a bunch of old ladies! There is an attitude "It's been this way for couple hundred years, it will be that way for a couple hundred more" that many (not all) seem to have.

Once I exhibited at a Brass Band competition. A conductor came to an insrtument manufacturer next to me looking for a matched set of horns with a mouthpiece that had a dark sound, perfectly in tune and a few other things. I though he was looking for a hardware solution to a software problem - it's the musical conception of the band he needed to do work with!

All I can say, it doesn't matter where the band is from, there seems to be the "old lady" attitude going on!

PS - sorry if I offended any old ladies.

Chuck Jackson wrote:Tradition, plain and simple. Your horn wouldn't fly in England or anywhere else except America. Sometimes it's better just to enjoy the zen of the whole thing. Chuck

Sorry Chuck, but I just can't accept "tradition" as the conclusion to the depth of this problem. Look at the trombones... they are no way near similar to the rest of the band OR even within the section! What is "traditional" about them? The cornets are not the same either. We have everything under the sun from Besson, Yamaha, Getzen, Schilke, and more! What is so traditional about that? The Eb soprano player can even whip out a trumpet if he feels so inclined! Is this traditional of the brass band ensemble as well?

People, I know I am in Japan - the issue is not about making waves - it is about why, for some reason only known to God, that the tubas are... somewhat discriminated against when it comes to brass band! If the Besson Eb and Bb tubas were the best at making a "dark" sound, don't you think that many other professional tuba players in this world would be using these instruments in orchestras all over the world? All I hear is people looking for a Meinl Weston, or a Miraphone, or a B&S, or a Hirsbrunner, or a...

I know you know what I am talking about. I am just trying to find out a LIGITIMATE answer. I mean come on, you are going to chalk all this up to tradition? Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit more than odd? What is the tradition of the wind band, or any other band/ensemble? Just because the British are so... I mean... might be so stubborn, does that mean that we have to carry that attitude along with the band for years to come? I am hoping that people nowadays have more sense than that.

vmi5198 wrote:Please, if you have any REAL advice or opinion, hopefully from other brass banders, please help me understand this problem.

I understand that you're frustrated, and I don't blame you. But you've had some bonafide brass band folks give you their opinions, and you've brushed them off (is it policing posts to add "a bit rudely"?).

This has to do with appearance, and with tradition. Why is it not such a big deal in other sections? Because as different as the horns look to a knowledgeable person up close, they look basically identical to the average schmuck 50 feet away. The tubas, on the other hand, stick up above the rest of the band for all the world to see. And while I don't agree that appearance should be the most important consideration, I DO agree that it's a distraction from the music if something doesn't "look right". Imagine a symphony orchestra where there was one (visible) player wearing overalls and a straw hat instead of a tux. It wouldn't hurt his playing a bit, but the conductor would never permit it. Why? Because appearance IS a factor in performance.

My guess is that, to this particular director, your tuba looks like overalls and a straw hat. No amount of discussion is going to change his mind. Your tuba just doesn't look right to him.

Dad always said: "The boss ain't always right, but he's always the boss."
__________________________________
Joe Baker, who is sympathetic to Mark's plight.

vmi5198 wrote:[I mean come on, you are going to chalk all this up to tradition?

Why else would brass band scores published in 2004 still have parts (except bass trombone, of course) printed only in treble clef?

Yes, originally there was a purpose to having all parts in treble clef: interchangeable fingering from one horn to the next. But as brass bands become more of an international activity and not restricted to the UK, you would think that tuba parts would be written in bass clef as tuba parts in all other genres are. But this is not the case. In fact, some tuba players in the UK are totally uncomfortable reading in bass clef! Don't underestimate the significance of tradition in brass banding and in other musical circles.

Tradition is tradition. That is the way things are. I am sorry if you don't think I have an answer, but I have been playing and conducting brass bands for @ 10 years. The sound is the main reason why they use those horns. In the LVBB, I don't have the luxury of having a matched set, they are too expensive, but if we could afford a matched set, I would get them and use them in a heartbeat. I had the privilege of playing BBb with the Salt River Brass Band in Phoenix. They had a matched set and the sound was fabulous, not too boomy, clearer, more concise, and easier to hear. It was a better sound to my ears. I think you should walk away from this gig because you have forgotten the cardinal rule of music, as shitty as it may be:

THE CONDUCTOR IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Have peace.

Chuck

It is pretty interesting that they have a matching set of Bessons in the land of Yamaha... That couldn't have been cheap... I still say once the Yen is spent, the horns are gonna' get played. Period.

And all that tradition stuff too... Kind of like a sport... Part of the uniform maybe...

Louis

Steve Marcus wrote:

vmi5198 wrote:[I mean come on, you are going to chalk all this up to tradition?

Why else would brass band scores published in 2004 still have parts (except bass trombone, of course) printed only in treble clef?

Yes, originally there was a purpose to having all parts in treble clef: interchangeable fingering from one horn to the next. But as brass bands become more of an international activity and not restricted to the UK, you would think that tuba parts would be written in bass clef....

[/size} Hi, Steve!

Whenever I think about the fact that tuba parts in the US are written in bass clef as non-tranposed parts.... forcing us poor tuba schmucks to learns multiple fingerings.... I get a little steamed! The engravers and publishers ought to have their butts kicked for forcing this upon the bass clef guys! I would like to hear one good argument about why ALL music should not be written in treble clef. Tradition??

Same thing with the viola, whay in God's name didn't they just write the music in treble clef? Inquiring minds want to know.....

Chuck

Same thing with the viola, whay in God's name didn't they just write the music in treble clef? Inquiring minds want to know.....

It's all about ledger lines. They just need to make a different clef for every instrument. Then we'll let complaining begin.

Jonathan Cruz
BBb Bass
Brass Band of Central Florida

I've always wondered why staves are 5 lines and not 6 (add a line to the bottom of the BC staff and the top of the TC staff and they read the same).

I know--just 'cause!

I'd like to say a few things here, hope I don't offend anyone!

I'll preface it with the info that I'm a UK BBb player with a besson 992, have played at every level of brass band from beginner/youth to National and European champions, as well as in 10 piece, big band, orchestras and shows etc.

A full set of Sovereign right facing basses blend the sound better, not because of the way they face, but the sound they make, even a Yam Maestro can stick out, and I have personal experience of this!;
The set the band possess will probably be less in tune than your tuba, but will be less in tune together (!);
It isn't a completely unbreakable tradition, as I've played both a B&S and St.Pete in top brass bands over here, with well respected name BB conductors. It didn't work from a sound and technical facility point of view, but noone told me to change;
As many have said, the band has a perfectly serviceable and in their eyes preferable instrument, so bite the bullet and give it a shot!

AndyCat wrote:The set the band possess will probably be less in tune than your tuba, but will be less in tune together (!);
It isn't a completely unbreakable tradition, as I've played both a B&S and St.Pete in top brass bands over here, with well respected name BB conductors. It didn't work from a sound and technical facility point of view, but none told me to change;

Thanks Andy, this is by far the most reasonable explanation yet! Finally, someone who simply looks for an answer to my question rather than giving me the run-around by trying to play psychiatrist! Regards,

.

Mark, I had an almost-encounter with a British Brass Band. There was to be an audition for an opening for BBb bass. I thought it would be interesting to try, and got in touch with them. I figured that even though I was now playing a CC tuba, my treble clef reading was fine. Untransposing from Bb to C slowed down my reading, but I figured that, with practice, I could do that OK.

They said that it was fine with them if I wanted to audition using a CC tuba, but if I won the opening, I would be expected to play a BBb tuba -- and that I could use one owned by the band. It was some Yamaha copy of a Besson 3+1 compensator of the sort used by British Brass Bands.

Well, I had to think about it. Even though I liked the people, I decided I didn't want to make the commitment to playing an instrument I wouldn't otherwise pick to play. I gave the audition a pass.

There are many musical traditions, and the British Brass Bands are an example of a very particular tradition. I won't pass judgement on whether some traditions are better than others. However, I will decide where I want to put my efforts. I suggest you have the same kind of decision to make for yourself.

Best,
Allen Walker