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Can someone explain to me why there is a 2nd valve trigger on the 5/4 BBb Rudy tubas?
I've seen that when I played one, but started thinking about it only after some recent posts.
I play BBb only (yamaha 321 and old rotary kaiser) and I have no notes where I feel the need for pulling a 2nd valve.
Pulling 1st valve can solve some pedal note issues, but is that 2nd valve thing intended for similar reasons?

Thanks!

Wim

My Neptune also has 2nd valve trigger which I only infrequently use. When I do it is;

1) To flatten when using a mute
2) When using 2+4 combination on sustained chord
3) When playing the Neptune as a BBb (not applicable to Rudy)

The 2nd valve trigger is a useful extra accessory, but IMHO far from necessary.

I love the second valve trigger and wish all tubas had them.

Top reason: a perfectly 2-4 note in tune, keeping the fifth valve tuned for 4-5

Unfortunately, neither of my current tubas have one, and I don't want to
A) Add any more weight to my F tuba.
B) Completely re-engineer my CC tuba to try and fit one in to the piston cluster.

My current F tuba workaround involes using a different 5th valve tuning.

when i owned a Rudy 4/4 CC...i used it ALL THE TIME... they are great...

for me the first valve slide did not need to be moved for 'f' or 'Bb'... so park the first valve slide and leave it... FOR ME...

but...
...for 'a' and 'e' it did... but with the second valve kicker.... done... and for the 'Eb' and 'Ab'... done...

i love the second valve kicker...

-E (has "become a fan of" the second valve kicker)

Another secondary reason is to have 1+2 in tune without having to pull 1 in technical passages, and to get 2+3 in tune if you need 3 alone for a trill or alternate fingering.

In short, everything that is a combination theoretically needs some pulling. It's just that it is usually a small amount that we have all learned to unconsciously lip it, and it's not so much tone center suffers.

But I agree, the main use is to get 2+4 in tune.

I used the second valve kicker on my Rudy 5/4 CC to tune the E-flat just below the staff. I found 523 well in tune versus 24 which would require use of the kicker to bring the pitch down. Sold the Rudy about three years ago. Had a dream about playing one just last night.....very curious????? I think it was just a 4 valve version.

Could it also be resultant of providing an in-tune alternate fingering that helps some of those Rudy-Meinl contrabass tubas that had some odd-spots around the top of the staff?

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:Could it also be resultant of providing an in-tune alternate fingering that helps some of those Rudy-Meinl contrabass tubas that had some odd-spots around the top of the staff?

Of course! I hadn't thought of that, since I don't venture into the tuba stratosphere that often.

On my Rudy Bayreuth BBb I use the trigger on the B below the stave (i.e. 4 and 2+) and every combination below that which involves both the 4th and 2nd valves. Otherwise the instrument is (amazingly - but that is what I love about the Rudy) so nicely in tune just about anywhere higher up in the range that no pulling or triggering is necessary. Any minor adjustment can be done with the lip or the use of 1-2 instead of the 5th partial (depending on the ambient key of the work being played). I have never found a need to pull the 1st valve slide but occasionally on the aforementioned B I have pulled the 4th valve slide as well as used the trigger - this slide is conveniently placed so you can pull it and operate the trigger with the left hand at the same time.

I really can't say why.


Take this CC tuba fingering chart:

http://www.chisham.com/tips/fingerings/CC.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

The top fingering in the chart is the typical "normal fingering chart" fingering. Those are what I'll be counting below. The chart goes from the second E below the staff to the D#/Eb above the staff. The chart is not what I'd call absolutely complete, but it does cover *most* of the normally written range of the instrument, which is perfectly fine.

There are 36 notes in that chart.

The 2nd valve is used in 20 of those notes (56%).
13 of the uses of the 2nd valve are valve combinations.
7 of the uses of the 2nd valve are not valve combinations.

The first valve is used in 13 of those notes (36%).
6 of those uses are valve combinations.

The third valve is used 5 times (14%), each time as a combination with the second as a 2+3 fingering.

The fourth valve is used only 6 times in that chart (16%), 3 times in a combination with the second valve.


Of all the valve slides one can move, the second valve slide affects the largest number of notes (not counting the main tuning slide).


Most tubas have a 1+2 and 2+3 fingering in one or more octaves that are sharper than the rest. Moving the second valve slide is probably the best way to take care of both the sharp 1+2 and sharp 2+3 with one solution.

Newer Rudolf Meinl tubas are very well in tune with themselves (even sharp 6th and 8th partial stuff fixed). Many models have been redesigned via computer. Most can be played in tune just by moving the second valve slide.

Great analysis! Thanks.

bloke wrote:Regardless of whether or not it gets used - once you grow accustomed to it, it really does look badass.

OK, Joe, you officially have too much time on your hands.