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After posting in another push/pull topic it occured to me that it would be neat to hear about the good tubas you guys have played/owned. Please list your favorite tuba ever, with excellent intonation without sacrificing sound quality. Include all the details.

After playing trombone for 50 years and having no excuse at all for an out of tune note it was kind of refreshing to have an instrument to blame it on after I started doubling. That soon turned to frustration. Then my church bought one of Roger's bargain basement VMI's and I was liberated from the inherent stovepipe slide pulling syndrome. In a year of playing the VMI I have had one note in one piece that had intonation issues that I had to specifically address. The rest of the time the horn was on autopilot. I don't have a clue if all VMI/PT's are all like this, but I'm tickled to death that I've found one to play that is. The only downside is that it is to heavy to drag around and or hold.

My pick: VMI 3301

Yamaha 321 BBb.
Sounds like sh*t, but all notes in tune. (false fingerings for pedals are considered 'normal', correct?)

oedipoes wrote:Yamaha 321 BBb.

You must have a magic one. All of the ones I played had some serious issues in regards to an issue from an out of tune partial. Combine this with difficult to access slides and you have a tough tuba to deal with. Maybe the reason it sounds like feces is because you are blowing it in tune thanks to the wide open slots (as I remember these tubas having) at a cost of resonance.

In regards to "in tune" tubas. Mirafone 188. I'm sure some other tubas will be mentioned, but the 188 seems to be very in tune with a lot of people even with what they use for a fingering system. The only slide I moved was first valve for low Eb (1-3-4), D (I preferred 1-3 over 4), and in for D in the staff. Mirafone 186 BBb and CC tubas are also very in tune, however, I found the BBb to be a bit more in tune across the scale, withholding the lack of a low B natural.

I also found Conn 2/3/5J tubas to be very easily played in tune, when you are willing to deal with what I call "three valve" fingerings. Essentially, 4th valve is more of an "octave key" than to be used as a 1-3 alternate.

My Gnagey (York bugle, King + Meinl valve block) is unbelievable. It locks into every note in the "normal" playing range, from CC all the way to g1. The only alternate fingerings - I use 1-2 on 3rd space e, open d1 and 1-2 on e1, to make them sit amidships on the strobe.

Last summer Sam modified the receiver a bit to help my security in the upper range - the only aspect of the horn I'd had any beef with since I bought it in '06. Weird thing is, it was actually better in tune with itself before he did the mod. Prior to that the e's were in tune open and d1 was identical open or 1.

I've never had a horn like this. It's spooky.

Re VMI - my Neptune is pretty good too, but nowhere near as "dead-nuts" as the Gnagey. The most troublesome issue is a tendency to hang sharp on middle c and b (the 8th partial?), and ever so slightly on G (bottom line of the staff). So middle c sometimes gets played 1 and b gets a tweak of the old "whammy bar."

Mirafone 186 BBb--VERY easy to play in tune

Yamaha YBB 641--best horn I've ever worked with-no problem at all playing it in tune and had a superb tone. In fact that will be my next horn purchase (saving up for it now).

JJ

I'll start one going the opposite way...

MOST OUT OF TUNE TUBAS-

Yamaha 822 CC
Yamaha 861 CC
Kalison D.S. CC

Of the tubas I own, the two with the most easily managed intonation are a Miraphone 186 Bb and a Yamaha YFB-621. The latter is not known for this, but mine plays in tune. The G on the staff requires a bit of work. And on the Miraphone, the 5th partial is flat, and needs a push for the C on the staff and fingerings from an octave down for the Db and D when the notes are sustained.

The B&S has excellent intonation, but it requires the player to produce it. The Miraphone and Yamaha provide assistance, and the B&S does not. But when the right pitch is buzzed, the right pitch comes out with a well-centered tone.

None of my regularly played tubas have bad intonation in the ranges and for the purposes for which I use them. The player is another matter.

Rick "who does his best" Denney

Rudolf Meinl 4345 and 4345 piston, both more in tune with themselves than a Mira 188.

TUBAD83 wrote:Mirafone 186 BBb--VERY easy to play in tune

Yamaha YBB 641--best horn I've ever worked with-no problem at all playing it in tune and had a superb tone. In fact that will be my next horn purchase (saving up for it now).

JJ

baltimore brass has a used one at a nice discount over buying new. It looks nice too. http://www.baltimorebrass.net/pic.php?id=564" target="_blank
just figured I would give you a heads up because you said that you want one

oedipoes wrote:Yamaha 321 BBb.
Sounds like sh*t, but all notes in tune. (false fingerings for pedals are considered 'normal', correct?)

I considered having the first valve slide cut on my old one before deciding to buy another horn. Even pushed all the way in Eb along with other notes were 10+ cents flat.

My BBb Besson 3-valve comp has a "magic" dent on the knuckle between the 1st and 2nd valve casing. Because of that magic dent, my Besson is one of the most in-tune tubas I have ever played. The 5th partials are right on, and even the 7th partials are usable with minimal lipping. The only trade off is that 1+3 CC is stuffy, and there are no usable "false pedals." How do I know? I had it "fixed," and all the 5th partials went flat. I carefully readjusted the dent with a small ball peen hammer and brought them back to pitch, without affecting the tone or intonation of anything else. But I got lucky as a one-off.

A Miraphone 186 is easy to play in tune due to the positions of the slides, but the 5th partials can be flat. On my BBb, with the retrofit St Pete bell which is shorter and necessitated a longer main tuning slide, it moved all the nodes and anti-nodes to different places in the bugle, and the only alternate fingering I need is 1+2 for midline D.

Any Conn souzy will play in tune if you convert the upper loop of the 1st valve circuit to a hand adjustible tuning slide as on a regular tuba.

I suspect that the intonation characteristics are as much the result of the air generation system in front of the mouthpiece as the horn. The only horn that I have owned where I had intonation problems was any Conn 2XJ. I have had a 20J, 21J, and 22J and they all had a flat third partial.

My King 2341 and Besson 983 both play within 5 cents up and down my useful range. The only problem with the Besson was the horn being flat overall with most mouthpieces, but it is consistently so. Once I found a mouthpiece on which I could get the fundamentals in tune, I was able to set the slides so that it is in tune throughout my useful range (which admittedly is only from about a pedal C to the Eb above the staff).

jon112780 wrote:I'll start one going the opposite way...

MOST OUT OF TUNE TUBAS-

Yamaha 822 CC
Yamaha 861 CC
Kalison D.S. CC

I have to disagree with you on this. I have had nothing but good experiences with my 822, so much so that my professor is seriously considering purchasing one himself.

The most in-tune tuba i've ever played, ready for this...was my old Alexander. DEAD-ON. No alternates needed. And it had that sound. I miss that horn soo much. Last I heard, it was in Iceland...

Rick Denney wrote:Of the tubas I own, the two with the most easily managed intonation are a Miraphone 186 Bb ...And on the Miraphone, the 5th partial is flat, and needs a push for the C on the staff and fingerings from an octave down for the Db and D when the notes are sustained.

BINGO!
Too bad most 186 players use the fingerings "from the back of the book" and clash horribly on those notes.
(And, D below the staff often works better as 3 then 1-2, although some of that depends on how the player has the slides set.)

A more interesting thread would be "the most in tune tubas that you do not currently own".

cjk wrote:A more interesting thread would be "the most in tune tubas that you do not currently own".

Along those lines, if you do want your current tuba to play more in tune, follow this link:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32978&hilit=solution

mine... . My Miraphone 188 plays as in-tune as I play it. I have no "problem notes" but occaisionally adjust for temperature and myself being inconsistant.

Miraphone 188 is my benchmark. Not that there aren't better ones out there, but I haven't had serious playing time on ones that do.

Overall, I *really* like the 188's. I don't think they're the *best* at everything, but they are really *really* good at everything, and excellent with intonation. I feel like in the end, this could be the tuba I settle down with -- plays great, sounds great, and it just plain looks cool.