Bass trombone in Bb, F and, um, C?

[jeopardymaster]

Slightly off-topic but there are a few other doublers out there.

A trombonist sitting next to me for an orch gig the other night mentioned a new bass trombone some Germans are working on. I'd never heard of it, and I couldn't find but one page that touched on it, but here goes:

You have your standard bass trombone with an F attachment. But instead of adding an independent G or Gb or a dependent E or D valve, you have a valve that DISengages a length of tubing when you press it. So when you press the valve you take a whole step worth of pipe OUT of the mix, putting the horn in C.

Low B is now a pedal (2d position). So is low C.

Anyone out there have any intel on this configuration?

[phaymore]

Yamaha did something similar to this with some beginners trombones. It keeps small kids from having to reach sixth position.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... TID=242600

Patrick

[jeopardymaster]

I recall mention of the Preacher model but I've never seen one. However, I understood from my colleague that, rather than an avocational or student model, the concept instrument is a pro level bass trombone. Any of you European posters here hear of such a thing?

[imperialbari]

http://www.bassposaunen.de/Bassposaunen ... frost.html

http://www.frosttrombone.com/english.html

[jeopardymaster]

I think this is it, thanks. Looks like a fairly well-placed instrument, although the pipes seem rather convoluted.

My German is minimal, but I interpreted the attached commentary to be 2 testimonial assessments - somehow not entirely complimentary, which would be strange for promotional material. So I ran them through Yahoo Babelfish and got some of the godawfulest gobbledygook I've ever seen.

Gonna let my son translate them for me.

[Mike-ICR]

Is this achieved by flipping a standard rotor and springing it in the opposite direction (so it engages the valve circuit in the up position and cuts it out in the depressed position)?

[jeopardymaster]

That is my understanding, yes - engage the valve to remove pipe. Which could cause stuffiness to the "open" horn if done poorly (and even if done well, I suppose). But of course one knock on in-line F and Gb valves is that they introduce stuffiness as well.

[iiipopes]

For several years Yamaha has had a student model with the Ascending full step valve, so Bb is open, C is trigger, D is usual 4th, etc., for younger players that don't have full growth and therefore full reach yet. Neat idea, limited applicability, as expensive as one of their middle line bones, so may not be economically practical for most people. But again, a neat idea.

I have considered the possibility of having a half step 6th rotor, like on some F tubas, put on a contrabass tuba, but instead of being a conventional descending valve, to flip it and have it linked as an ascending valve so that engaging the valve gives you the 1st half step above an open note. For example, on a CC tuba, you would use #6 alone for C#/Db instead of 2+4 and lip down or trigger something. This would also give a good near-pedal pitch an octave lower that, of course, can be a difficult and variable pitch to play on any tuba. BUT -- all the hardware and expense for just two notes, and the risk of making the horn more stuffy? Probably not practical.