Page 1 of 1
Miraphone question
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:44 pm
by Mcordon1
Does a Miraphone 1290 take an American or Euro shank? I think american, but I'm not sure.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:15 pm
by Ferguson
I believe it's an American shank. Whatever it's called, it's the same as the rest of the Miraphones, and not the oversize receiver you might see on an Alex 164. My Yamaha Bobo mouthpiece inserts about 1.25" into the 190, which seems about right.
Best,
Ferguson
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:48 pm
by tubashaman2
.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:20 am
by Ferguson
How might I tell these American and European shanks apart? And what is the name of the oversize shank, which I've only seen on big Alexanders, and an occasional Gronitz?
Best,
Ferguson
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:33 am
by tubashaman2
.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:38 am
by Roger Lewis
I believe that the only Miraphone with a Euro shank would be the 1292 New Yorker. This is set-up for the larger shank. The 1291's and pretty much all the other Miraphones are "American" shank. This was deduced by examining the shanks on the Miraphone made mouthpieces. Only the one that ships with the 1292 is the larger, Euro shank.
Just a little clarification. The 1290 and the 1291 should be American shank.
Roger
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:09 am
by Richard Murrow
Roger Lewis' explanation is dead on. I will say this however, if you compare the normal Miraphone receivers with some older Conn or King (2,3,4,5Js and older King-Symphony) tubas, the shank on the Conns and Kings (American, one would think) does seem a bit smaller. I say this based on a comparison with my old Conn 3J(1979) and any of the Miraphones that I have. I also have 2 older Karl Ziess tubas, one for sure was built in 1969 or 1970, that has the same size receiver as the Conn. I can also tell you that Miraphone receivers from the late 60s/early 70s were slightly smaller than they are today. So, there has certainly been some kind of evolution in the past 40-50 years. In general it seems to me that receivers and leadpipes both have become a bit larger/more open. Maybe Matt Walters has some insight on this also.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:34 pm
by Phil Dawson
My 1290 takes the "standard" "smaller" Miraphone shank. I have used many different mouthpieces in it over 15-20 years I have had it and I have never had any fit issues. Some of the 1290s play very well but I have heard that some of them were not so good. Mine is one of the 6 factory prototypes and plays very well.
Good Luck, Phil
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:44 pm
by WakinAZ
Springtime and time to revisit the best general tuba shank size explanation out there (although it does not directly answer the OP's question):
Matt Walters wrote:TUBA SHANK SIZES (primer)
In the world of tuba mouthpieces, it seems there are five (5) general shank sizes and that, can lead to confusion. The Standard American and European Shank sizes, followed by the Large Shank, are the most common sizes that fit modern production tubas. From smallest to largest, we offer the following information to shed a little light on the subject.
EUROPEAN SHANK: This is an increasingly popular shank size of about .530" diameter at the small end of the shank. It is found in mouthpieces like the JK Exclusive, Perantucci, Laskey "E" shank, and of course our wonderful Sheridan Series of mouthpieces. Most every European and American tuba built these days, will accept this shank size.
STANDARD AMERICAN: The reference point for this size of about .520" at the small end of the shank. A good example would be the Bach, and Conn Helleberg tuba mouthpieces. This is the most common size here in the United States. In the Dennis Wick line, you need to make sure it has the "L" in the model number to get this standard size. Our regular size shank Dillon Mouthpieces are also of this size. Besides American built horns, many European horns like Miraphone can use this size.
LARGE SHANK: This is a larger size that measures about .550" diameter at the small end of the shank. It works well on the larger European tubas. Especially horns with large diameter leadpipes like the "York" copies and most Alexander model 163 CC tubas. This is the size of our Dillon Music "L" shank mouthpiece and the new Wick 2XL.
SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas. I hear this referred to as the Eb tuba size. Some old German, etc. 3/4 size BBb tubas have also shown up with that receiver size. If you are having trouble figuring out what small size shank your old tuba needs, it is about the same size as a large shank trombone mouthpiece. Borrow one from a trombonist and see for yourself. You can order a Denis Wick mouthpiece, or to have a wider variety of mouthpieces to choose from, consider replacing the receiver for about the price of a mouthpiece.
KAISER SHANK: With a measurement of about .585" in diameter at the small end of the shank, this truly is a "Kaiser" size. It fits the largest Alexander model 164, a few ‘one off’ model 163's, and some original York receivers we've come across. Anyone needing this size shank will need to get a custom built mouthpiece, or have an adapter made.
I hope this explanation will be of help to you.
Matt Walters
Source:
http://www.angus1.com/ssh/shank.htm
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:45 am
by tubashaman2
.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:12 am
by iiipopes
Shank size on a tuba mouthpiece directly correlates on how far it will go into the receiver. As for using a different shank mouthpiece, and whether it is "wrong," there is no right or wrong when it comes to tuba, because the frequencies are so low and have such a long wavelength that it doesn't matter hardly as much, if even at all, to the "gap" issues that trumpet players and techs talk about so much.
Now, of course, I'm not going to use my Wick 1 in my other instruments, only because its shank tip, being only the .490 older Brit, doesn't even seat properly in a "standard" receiver. But I do use a Kelly 18 on the Besson in cold weather, and even though it only goes in @ 1/4 inch, I notice no problems. Then again, as a solo player in the cold, does it really matter? I notice my Kelly 18 goes into the bits of the 38K a little deeper than does the PT82, which seems to have a slightly larger shank, although probably not a full "euro" shank, and the overall geometry of the mouthpiece plays so much more consistently than the lexan Kelly 18 that it's the cup-throat-backbore geometry rather than anything having to do with any minor shank size variation.
For tubas, the different shank sizes have more to do with security of the mouthpiece in the receiver, although I believer Rick Denny has on his website an anecdote about a tuba that didn't play well because the receiver had never been reamed out, so a mouthpiece wouldn't seat properly to begin with. But given a properly tapered receiver, of whatever size, I don't believe it makes as much difference as it does on trumpet.
Re: Miraphone question
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:45 pm
by pierso20
tubashaman2 wrote:If it is the same as the 1291/2, then it is an European shank.
I'm pretty sure 1290's are american. It fits most mouthpieces (my MF3 and helleburgs etc) without eating up the whole thing.