TubeNet

I know this is a tuba forum, but cmon' it is low brass, and a lot of you guys seem to play many instruments, so maybe you guys could help.

Today in the band room, the low brass section leader was cleaning out some lockers, checking all the trombones. He opened up a case, and behold... a Conn Valved Trombone. He started playing it, it sounded ok. I must admit, it pretty much felt like a novelty though. Probably why they aren't around so much anymore.

So yeah, can you still find some at some shops, or am I pretty much antique shopping on ebay? Also, what are your opinion on these horns? I'd love to own one, and get it restored.

Edit:
Also, if I should have picked general, could this topic please be moved. No need for a ban.. right?

Valved trombones are not that uncommon. They are still being manufactured by most major companies.

I personally am not a fan of them. They can be a pain to play in tune, and can be odd sounding...but hey, everyone has their opinions, right?

Yes they are still around--just don't mention them around older t-bone players; it's considered an insult to even admit that they exist around them


JJ

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Sure! Valved trombones are still around in fairly large numbers.... mostly being played by 'washed-up' trumpet players. Also by euphonium players who don't feel it fashionable to take their old Conn bell-front baritone into jazz band practice.

Also by euphonium players who don't feel it fashionable to take their old Conn bell-front baritone into jazz band practice.

There are times when the tone color of a euphonium just doesn't work for covering a trombone part. I've played valve trombone in a community orchestra that was seriously short on trombonists--while this was not an optimal solution, it was better than using a euphonium.

That said, the sound and response of a valve trombone is often quite different (usually stuffier and more prone to blat) than one with a hand slide.

If I'm not mistaken, pea-shooter valve trombones have long been a fixture in some categories of Latin music.

My valve trombone sounds a lot better than I do. It's a good one (Olds), and fun to play, there just aren't enough hours in the day. I try to think of it as a (bass) trumpet, rather than a (valve) trombone. Intonation is pretty good, vastly better than my euphonium or whatever it was.

I regularly play my Holton TR395 Superbone. As a eupher, I can play technical passages with the valved left hand, but when things slow down, get the free blowing effect of the slide in my right hand. Since the valve section consumes some tubing length, the horn actually has a 6 position slide. For 7th position, one has to use 6th plus 2nd valve or valves 1-3 and 2nd position, or 1-2-3, or ....I think of it as my small bore tenor trombone with piston actuated F, G, Eb, A, B, C, etc. attachments

The superbone is a very small bore (under .500) and seems to use trumpet valves. The bell is large (9") and the horn can be very "blatty" when played like Maynard did, using a trumpet or even normal trombone-ish embouchure. However, I find that if I use a 6 1/2AL or 5G, I can get a very nice classical sound out of the horn by using my more relaxed euphonium embouchure to darken the tone. Response is pretty good as long as I stay away from using more than 2 valves at a time. Intonation is suprisingly good. This horn was extremely well made and except for its small bore, is in every sense a professional quality horn. Unfortunatly, Conn-Selmer shut down the Elkhorn, WI factory where Holton made this horn and they are now out of production.

I have enjoyed my horn, and used it when doubling 3rd T-bone parts for pro-gigs. Except for the derisive snorts when the pros first see it, they actually have been impressed by the sound.

Doug

I think some valve trombones are just poorly designed. Some of the turn of the century examples I've played had the body (where the hand slide would be) folded in half. They were still small bore horns and so quite stuffy but they seemed to have better intonation (for me) and a more trombone-like sound. If there would be a large bore, folded body version it may resolve some of the issues associated with valve trombones. Sort of a half way point between a typical valve trombone and a trombonium.

Over winter break, I got a Blessing marching trombone. It looks like a trumpet, but I played it in my orchestral repetoire class (with Mars...I couldn't get a euph that day), and everyone said taht it sounded exactly like a trombone. .Good thing or bad thing, I don't know. But it works for its job, at least...and I think sounds pretty good (I got it for jazz so that I can get more of a valvey sound when I need it, as opposed to my normal trombones)

Donn wrote:My valve trombone sounds a lot better than I do. It's a good one (Olds), and fun to play, there just aren't enough hours in the day. I try to think of it as a (bass) trumpet, rather than a (valve) trombone. Intonation is pretty good, vastly better than my euphonium or whatever it was.

I have one of these as well, and I agree 100%. SO much fun to play, silver, small bore... makes my rather limited trombone playing abilities sound amazing. It's not much to look at, but easily the best sound I have ever gotten out of a trombone, slide or valve. I tend to have a stuffy sound on other trombones, but not that Olds valver, brilliant open sound.

Weren’t the valve sections of the King 2B and the 3B the same one with the 0.481" bore?

On a privately taken photo only I have seen a Yamaha valve trombone with a 0.547" bore. Was that model ever available on a wider market?

The only other large bore piston valve trombone I know of was the discontinued Conn 90G shaped like a front action baritone.

In 1970 on Tenerife I saw three small bore compact valve trombones make up the trombone section of the local symphony orchestra. A very odd concert. The first half was a slaugterhouse with Eroica being the victim. The second half had a del Falla rep sounding very well.

Klaus

bloke wrote: ...and (on the topic of "bass trumpet") I'm not averse to those King "flugabones" for jazz combo gigs, either. They respond best with something like a 12C plugged into the receiver.

When looking at valve trombones I wavered over a marching trombone or two, also Olds I think. I wondered if the weight might be a little more comfortable with the regular trombone configuration, because of balance.

Basically, Cimbassos could be considered valve trombones, or couldn´t they ?
I haven´t heard people refer to them as being of poor design.

In traditional Austrian music, valved tromones are being used in certain, well defined ensembles. (Usually, as with the "Weissbacher Partie", these lineups are based on and named after the group that made up that particular style of ensemble).
I can see how trombonists sneer at these instruments, though.

tubeast wrote:Basically, Cimbassos could be considered valve trombones, or couldn´t they ?
I haven´t heard people refer to them as being of poor design....

I built mine in BBb... same pitch as a BBb tuba. I consider it more of a trombone than a tuba even though the pitch is the same. It's a poor design with respect to what we usually expect from a horn with a more conical bugle. But... a cimbasso IS what it is.

If you take a close look at the European symphonies, it appears that the rotary-valved trombone is the instrument of choice... as opposed to the use of what we consider to be a conventional slide trombone.

charlittle wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: If you take a close look at the European symphonies, it appears that the rotary-valved trombone is the instrument of choice... as opposed to the use of what we consider to be a conventional slide trombone.

Can you clarify this? Do you mean that when using valve trombones, the European symphonies use rotaries? Or are you saying that they use valve trombones as opposed to a regular trombone? I don't know much, but that seems very strange and possibly untrue...

Kind regards.

My statement is pure conjecture based only on what I've seen in various images of European symphonies. I DO NOT have actual first-hand experience with European symphonies. Pictures I've run across indicate to me that rotors are preferred over pistons and valves are used more than slides. Maybe one of our European forum members can enlighten us more. Klaus?? Kurt??

It's also interesting to me that Cerveny does not even list a slide trombone on their website. Only rotary-valved trombones.

TubaTinker wrote: It's also interesting to me that Cerveny does not even list a slide trombone on their website. Only rotary-valved trombones.

The web site I'm looking at puts the Cerveny models under "V.F.Cerveny Rotary Valve Instruments", further explained in the history section: "... Production program is still concentrated on the wide bore rotary valve instruments, the very best of the V.F.Cerveny heritage." So, if it weren't for rotary valve trombones, they'd have no trombones at all. And if there ever was a manufacturer to hang in there with every type of brass instrument they ever offered, it would be Cerveny.

Seems to me the Miraphone catalogue used to have a similar series of rotary trombones, including an F bass and maybe an alto. No longer? Possibly because the Europeans have been moving to slide trombone, and there's no longer much of a market?

Donn wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: It's also interesting to me that Cerveny does not even list a slide trombone on their website. Only rotary-valved trombones.

...... Possibly because the Europeans have been moving to slide trombone, and there's no longer much of a market?

I still wish some of our European forum members would chime in on this. I'm wondering if rotors are probably the most traditional type of valve and trends are perhaps moving towards more 'western' type of instruments. Most Americans (like me!) seem to be focused on only what they see here in the US and don't realize the vast array of music instruments that are in use around The World.

Donn wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: It's also interesting to me that Cerveny does not even list a slide trombone on their website. Only rotary-valved trombones.

The web site I'm looking at puts the Cerveny models under "V.F.Cerveny Rotary Valve Instruments", further explained in the history section: "... Production program is still concentrated on the wide bore rotary valve instruments, the very best of the V.F.Cerveny heritage." So, if it weren't for rotary valve trombones, they'd have no trombones at all. And if there ever was a manufacturer to hang in there with every type of brass instrument they ever offered, it would be Cerveny.

There is a picture of a Cerveny rotary valve bass trombone in F on the Dillon site. It sure looks like it would be a cimbasso if a 90 deg. fitting was put in the middle.

This is an interesting discussion for me because I would like to play in my local community orchestra. I want to play the tuba but, amazingly, in my small town, there are nine tuba players, which I did not know when I took up tuba. Two play in the orchestra already so that is out for me. However, the director told me if I played Trombone, I could join. Good to hear that valve trombones actually 'sound like trombones'. I think I'll see it I can find a budget valve trombone and, if it works out, maybe consider a new one.

Anybody have one for sale? <$400?