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Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:43 am**

I saw a couple of M'fone 185 CC tubas for sale on someone's site....I have never heard of this model; I've heard of the 184, 186, 187, 188...but not 185. It looked to have quite a stove pipe on it. No longer made?

And Bessons: reading the BBand tuba topic, someone stated that the 983 has front valves. Four front valves? The 981-2 have three upright + 1? Just trying to get it pictured.

MA

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:24 pm**

The 185 was built along traditional Miraphone lines, and is about midway in size between a 184 and a 186. It's a shame that they're not made any longer as some were really fine playing instruments.

Yep, the 983 has 4 front action compensating valves, while the 981 is a traditional 3+1 setup.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:26 pm**

Mirafone 185's are in between the 184 and 186 and may be the best playing tubas ever made. I have played some questionalble 184's and 186's but NEVER a bad 185. Great all-around instrument.

Chuck

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:22 pm**

MaryAnn wrote:I saw a couple of M'fone 185 CC tubas for sale on someone's site....I have never heard of this model; I've heard of the 184, 186, 187, 188...but not 185. It looked to have quite a stove pipe on it. No longer made?

And Bessons: reading the BBand tuba topic, someone stated that the 983 has front valves. Four front valves? The 981-2 have three upright + 1? Just trying to get it pictured.

MA

My very first instrument was a 4-valve 185 CC with a BBb conversion attachment. I bought it used from a director in the Philly area (whose name escapes me at the moment) that had used it while at Indiana University.

I wish I still had this tuba. It was vintage and had the most beautiful sound. For me, it was a supreme solo & chamber music instrument, but was too small for my taste for larger ensemble playing.

The 185 does indeed have a long, narrow bell. I found it to have lightning fast response.

If you ever have a chance to play one, jump at the chance!

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:04 pm**

I learned CC tuba fingerings on a 185. Used it in High School for about a year before starting college. I thought is was an unremarkable instrument which served its function. The only Miraphone CC I have played which I liked was the 188. The 188 I tooted on had remarkable response and an evenness which made it a dream to play.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:38 pm**

bloke wrote: flame bait: I would liken the Mirafone 185 to the so-called Rudolf Meinl 3/4...
...except the 185 had a useable scale, better valves, and superior fit/finish.

okay, I'll bite. I haven't played the original Rudy 3/4, but I now own an RM-43 from the mid-80's, and played another of similar vintage for the first time yesterday. Your comment about the scale is way off base. The RM-43 has as good or better intonation than any other horn I've played. I've played one Mira 185 and my Rudy has more even response and similar intonation. The RM-43 is actually nearly identical in specs to the old 16" bell 186. I'd liken it more to an old 186 with a weightier tone. My valves are great, but they were worked on by the incomparable Lee Stofer before I bought it. Fit & Finish? Whatever. My horn's not falling apart.

If you're referring to the old Rudy 3/4, before the 43 came out, I have no comment. Never played one.

-ck

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:18 pm**

Chuck(G) wrote:The 185 was built along traditional Miraphone lines, and is about midway in size between a 184 and a 186. It's a shame that they're not made any longer as some were really fine playing instruments.

So if I want a larger Miraphone than my 184, but don't want to go to a 186, then I should get one of these 185s, huh?

I spose I could. I really liked the one 186 CC I tried. Easy blowing, fast response.

MA

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:05 am**

What a great horn! The 185 was my first professional quality tuba. I wish I still had that horn today. I had it modified with a first and a fifth valve jigger that worked great with the fifth valve being in the left hand. The response was super crisp. The only thing against the horn is the bell isn't wide enough to safely lie it on the floor without leaning it against the wall. A small price to pay for such a nice horn.

Oh, I miss it so.

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:52 am**

bloke wrote:I used to sell a few of these (yep, in the '80's). Just like the rotary R.M.-4/4, the pitches towards the top of the staff: G though C are quite sharp indeed, though most all of the pitches in the "cash" registers are fine. (This RM pitch characteristic is no secret...almost universally known by anyone who has spent any time at all with these instruments.) Yep, the open E, Eb and D are a little better on the 3/4 R.M. than the old Mirafone 185, but the trade-off of six quite-sharp pitches is a tough trade, in my view.

My RM-43 has been my daily player for over a year now, so I've spent time on it. The top space G does sit a tad high, and I play top line A 3rd valve on any CC tuba cuz 1&2 seems to be high on every CC tuba. The Ab, Bb, B and C are pretty spot on. I haven't spent much time on the RM-45, so maybe the pitch up there is worse on that horn, but I have no complaints about mine. It might be a mouthpiece issue as well, I don't know. The G sits higher when I use the Jim Self mpc, as compared to the Monette 94 where it's a little more comfortable. Also, the previous owner had the leadpipe cut by Lee Stofer to raise the pitch, so that could have changed the tendencies as well.

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:43 am**

Doc wrote:

MaryAnn,
Personally, I'd buy a Rudy 3/4 CC or an older Alex 157 3/4 CC because of the sound, but that's me. They certainly can be more of a workout with slide pulling and alternate fingerings than the 185 would be. I would not, however, turn my nose up to a 185 CC.

I'm not sure where your priorities are regarding sound vs. intonation, but the Mirafone 185 is a great value, IMHO. Plays easy, easy to handle, and intonation is typical of Mirafones (good), and overall quality is great. It would be a great starter CC, a great small CC in the line-up, and a great CC for someone of less-than-gorilla-stature to manuever and manipulate. AND, the great thing about Mirafones (in general) is that you can always get your money back on it when you sell it if it doesn't work out.

Doc (who is clearly in the camp of "gorilla stature")

I already have a 184 which I like quite a bit. It is a bit light-sounding for orchestra work but I'm playing horn this year, not tuba. I'm accustomed to and can deal with Mfone intonation problems...the flat E etc in the staff. I'd rather deal with that than sharp high notes. If a 185 was still physically workable I might trade the 184. I seem to be in "look mode" again; must be bored, huh?

MA, who is definitely not even "chimp stature"

Posted: **Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:08 pm**

andrada wrote: The 163 can drive me nuts as you say. But every time I start to tell myself that I'm just a recreational duffer and this is supposed to be something I do for FUN, and I shouldn't be inflicting this much pain on myself I sit back and listen to it and it just sounds so nice....

I've been told that the new 163's are a bit better in the intonation department than the old ones. I finished refitting my old 163 BBb with ball-links (a bigger job than I'd first thought) and took it to orchestra rehearsal. It certainly has a great sound, but there was smoke coming out of my ears as I tried to remember what alternate fingerings made the thing work right for me.

Posted: **Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:27 am**

Klaus has (had) a scanned copy of an old Miraphone spec sheet that is quite useful. I also have it somewhere (maybe), but perhaps Klaus could post it or post a link to it.

IIRC:

model bore bell
old 184 .708 14 1/8
old 185 .730 15
old 186 .770 16.5
new 184 .708 15
new 186* .770 17.75

* for the past 15-20 years (maybe more)

So the new 184 should sound a lot like the old 185, due to the bell size.

Regards,

Posted: **Tue May 29, 2007 6:02 am**

what happened to that website comparing the different Miraphones???

Posted: **Tue May 29, 2007 1:58 pm**

You can just about think of the numbers in terms of bell size. The 184 is 14"... The 185 is 15"... and the 186 is 16" (OLD STYLE bells... not 'zactly but thereabouts).

Posted: **Tue May 29, 2007 4:13 pm**

Hmm. Is there any correlation between the 8X number and the i.d. of the main tuning slide in inches? (184 as .84" i.d. tuning slide, etc.?)

Posted: **Tue May 29, 2007 5:58 pm**

MaryAnn wrote:...
And Bessons: reading the BBand tuba topic, someone stated that the 983 has front valves. Four front valves? The 981-2 have three upright + 1? Just trying to get it pictured.

MA

I play a Besson 983 and at this time I would call it my primary horn. I use it in a large concert band, a British Style Brass Band and 3 quintets. Yes, it has 4 front action compensating valves. You can see a photo of it here:

http://www.patricksheridan.com/

Posted: **Tue May 29, 2007 7:15 pm**

I seem to remember that Klaus had done a lot of fiddling with throats and backbores and had some opinions on what could be done with mouthpieces to change the characteristics of intonation....such as a sharp high range. But he seems to have disappeared again (rats, hope he is ok,) and I can't find the post that I think I remember.

Once I retire I'm sure my memory will come back at the same rate that I get to make up all the sleep I've lost the last few years.

MA

Posted: **Wed May 30, 2007 12:52 am**

In my running-through-the-Miraphone-models period I had a nice 185(former TN Tech horn)that played and recorded nicely. Problem was I just couldn't get used to the live sound. Jim Self has used one since creation and they DO record like crazy but it just wasn't for me. I also had an old 3/4 Rudy later that was great and the intonation was no worse than the typical Miraphone of that period. Maybe better.

Ike

Posted: **Wed May 30, 2007 10:58 am**

DP wrote:what the hell is this? looks like a tuba, but nothing to actually identify what it is that you heard from someone was somehow similar to the 185's you've never played and a great basis for resurrecting a (dead) 3-year-old thread

Who peed in your Wheaties this morning?

In fact, it was someone other than Bob who resurrected the three-year-old thread. Bob was the third recent poster.

And I'm sure many readers recognized the picture as the Dalyan CC. I think Bob was trying to connect this already-resurrected thread to other recent threads discussing the Dalyan. He was just trying to do it a little more subtly than linking the threads. Nothing wrong with that.

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What is a Miraphone 185?

What is a Miraphone 185?

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