TubeNet

Hi
First post, I have been searching around and I'm finding lots of good info.

I'm mostly a woodwind and piano player but I have played some tuba (and sousaphone) now and then when I could borrow one and usually had no problem Om-pa-ing simple I IV V songs.
One of my teacher friends lent me a Yamaha from his school. I don't know the model but it was huge and I just couldn't play it.

In one of my groups I play contrabass clarinet with a guitar and soprano clarinet. We recently did a little parade. The contrabass clarinet can't be walked with so I used bari sax and obviously that was not ideal.

I recently saw a video of the Cirque du Soleil and I really liked the guys sound. It may have been an Eb tuba?

It's sort of hard to explain but the sound I hear would be more akin to a contrabass trumpet (cylindrical) then a contrabass fluglehorn (conical)
I do realize the tuba is conical but I guess the internal dimensions very.

Tuba is such a wildly non-standard instrument and there are so many sizes that I'm a bit overwhelmed.

I would really appreciate some suggestions for a small tuba that doesn't take a lot of air. (not because of lung capacity but to play long walking lines.)
I've seen some good things said about a few ebay Chinese tubas and a new horn around $800 seems preferable to an unknown vintage one , especially when you consider repair costs in the Bay Area.

Thanks for any suggestions
and hear is a great small group videowith Eli Newberger. Does anybody know what he is
playing ?
http://www.elinewberger.com/video_jazz_trio.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

It is not clear from your post if you plan to be doing more parades or if this is for more stationary work. Either way I think that an Eb or F horn would be more likely to give you the sound for which it sounds like you are looking. If you will be marching you can find good Eb sousaphones for less than $500 in playable condition on Ebay. They will only have three valves limiting the low range, but would allow you to have a relatively inexpensive lightweight horn. There are also plenty of 3 valve Eb tubas generally available for reasonable prices, because they are not in much demand these days. If you can deal with the limitations of three valves on an Eb, it is an inexpensive way to get a tuba, especially if it is going to be your second (or third or fourth) instrument. The main limitation of three valves is that anything below a low A will require "false" tones, which may or may not play well depending on the horn.

The Conn XJ horns are great little tubas to have. I played my Conn 5J on the back of a truck pulling a float back in my senior year of high school, and the instrumentation was kind of similar to your own, (it was me, a clarinet and a snare player.) It worked great, and the horn plays well. So, I would look at these horns, since they are made solidly and play well.

Eb ought to be great for small groups. If you want to play the same notes as a contrabass clarinet, though, you'll either need 4 valves, or a Bb tuba. The Bb tuba will work better if you're down there a lot, the 4 valve Eb will work better if your contrabass clarinet stuff frequently gets up into the second register. The compass of a tuba isn't so strictly a function of the key, though, as it is with the woodwinds.

I see myself in places, reading this thread - I went from contrabass clarinet, to a very used Olds 0-99 that I kind of wish I had kept. It was pretty hammered, but after I eventually spent a few bucks to fix the dented leadpipe and align the valves, it worked pretty well. Essentially the same tuba model later appeared with Vincent Bach engraved on it, along with the Conn stencils noted earlier.

I agree with the Olds 88 suggestion mentioned above - that was the first tuba I bought, still have it! The valves needed a bit of fine adjustment on my horn - some sticking, but othe than that - a good solid horn.

Another good small horn for circus/small combo/active performing is the Yamaha YBB 103 - a small front action 3 valve horn with a very full sound (for the size.) There was another tubenet thread on this horn recently. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32622 Only big problem is a nasty water trap that does not drain easily.

Eli is using a Harvey Phillips Holton CC now. There are not many of them out there.
The small Conns and Olds are very nice tubas for small ensembles. Another one that you might like is the Yamaha YBB-103. It's even smaller and lighter, and is very easy to play. The YBB-105 is the same horn in top-action form. I find that configuration less comfortable, but some people like it. Another top-action tuba that is small but decent is the King 1140. Dillon Music imports a Chinese version that plays well for under $1000, brand new.
An Eb tuba will be light, but on most of them it's hard to get a good sound below the staff. If you don't need those "cash" notes then you might be happy with one. There are plenty of them on Ebay, and they are usually pretty inexpensive. You can't go wrong with a Conn, a Grand Rapids, or a Buescher.

the elephant wrote: Olds O-99 and the O-99/4 --or the Reynolds that is basically the same thing, but I do not know the model.
Conn 4J and 5J tubas are 3 and 4 valved BBb horns. (The 2J and 3J are the CC versions of these tubas.)
Chinese TSO (Tuba Shaped Object) on eBay sight unseen and roll those dice…
Wade Rackley

Thanks Wade it looks like everybody else also thinks these are good horns to look for.

Lew wrote:It is not clear from your post if you plan to be doing more parades or if this is for more stationary work. Either way I think that an Eb or F horn would be more likely to give you the sound for which it sounds like you are looking. If you will be marching you can find good Eb sousaphones for less than $500 in playable condition on Ebay.

Hi Lew
For the imediate future I was planing on using the tuba for outdoors,marching etc.
I see guys marching with regular tubas so I thought that in case I got good enough to play indoors I should get a tuba instead of a sousaphone
I saw a Buescher Eb on eBay from the 1920's that sold for $131.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0336877117" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
..any comments on somthing like this?
Thanks again everybody for the help.

Art Hovey wrote: An Eb tuba will be light, but on most of them it's hard to get a good sound below the staff. If you don't need those "cash" notes then you might be happy with one.

hm, I think the sound can be great below the staff! Bear in mind that we're comparing to a contrabass clarinet!

F, C and B won't be quite as strong as a Bb tuba, but then a good sound on that C and B might be even less easy for a beginner on Bb tuba, for that matter.

I play for a Morris dance team, and those that have tubas (usually `northwest' style) commonly use Eb, along with one or two melodions and so forth. The problem with Eb is that so many of the inexpensive ones are top valve configuration, which is awkward to play standing up, but of course the British players are always going to go for that configuration anyway.

About that Buescher:

• Small shank mouthpieces are a special order item, mostly from one English maker (Denis Wick.) It's not a giant problem, but life is less complicated with a standard shank. (And many Eb tubas have the small shank, whether the seller knows this or not.)
• The leadpipe - the tube between the mouthpiece and the valves - is a critical part of the instrument, can't sustain damage without seriously detracting from the instrument's performance, and may not be really easy to fix if it's dented (?)

So ... that's a really good price for a tuba that's mostly pretty good looking. I don't know anything about playing characteristics of that model or even brand. I would budget at least $600. Since you already know something about playing the tuba, and you have encountered tubas that you can't play, it will be a lot easier to avoid purchasing one that falls in that category if you can try them out.

For the imediate future I was planing on using the tuba for outdoors,marching etc.
I see guys marching with regular tubas so I thought that in case I got good enough to play indoors I should get a tuba instead of a sousaphone :lol:
I saw a Buescher Eb on eBay from the 1920's that sold for $131.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0336877117" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
..any comments on somthing like this?
Thanks again everybody for the help. :D[/quote]

For outdoor playing, especially if you are marching, a Sousaphone will probably be more comfortable and easier to get a good volume directed to the audience. I play both tubas and sousaphones (and helicons) indoors and out, for money and for free, but if I only had one horn it would probably be a sousaphone.

Be very careful buying an old horn like that Buescher if you can't play it first (or can't afford to make a wrong buy.) Some old horns are still "High Pitch" and if the seller does not know much about the horn they might not know the difference. The dents in the lead pipe are more of a problem than anything else I see on that one - maybe could be fixed, but I am not a repair guy. Sometimes you can get lucky with a cheap old Eb but other times they are duds.

Dillons has had an E flat sousaphone for a while now, for 800 bucks. They have free shipping for orders over 200 dollars too.

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 13358.aspx" target="_blank

Has anybody had experience with a King student model E flat sousaphone? It just seemed like it fit the bill for what he was looking for.

averagejoe wrote:Dillons has had an E flat sousaphone for a while now, for 800 bucks.

OK, there's another point to consider - the "wrap". Eb sousaphones come in a "petite" and normal size. Because of the shorter overall length, an Eb that wraps around in a full circle will have a smaller radius, and persons with larger diameters will experience some discomfort.

There's a Conn model that doesn't wrap in a circle - kind of looks like it does, but if you look closer you can see where it's just some spare tubing grafted on to complete the circle. It's more spacious.

For more shoulder mounted options, see "helicon". They're not necessarily better in any really practical way, but the visual presentation is quite different and doesn't evoke football half-time.

In response to Bobsax's question, the horn I played on "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen" with Jimmy Mazzy, banjo, and Ted Casher, klez clarinet, was a lacquered-brass CC Harvey Phillips Holton. Here's the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3JHmck ... annel_page" target="_blank

I now use it for small ensemble work, and a Hirsbrunner 4 piston CC for bigger band stuff, like the Jaco Pastorius tribute concert at the Regattabar in Cambridge.

But when it was damaged on the return leg from Baltimore after a concert with the same guys (as the Jazz Tuber Trio), I asked Bob Osmun to both repair it and plate it in silver. It came out great, and plays more darkly and sweetly, much like my old Holton Del Negro, that's now owned by the Harvard Band. It now has a similar high and low range, too, to what you can hear on this clip of "Summertime" with Jimmy, recorded at the Sancy Snow Jazz Festival in Mt. Dore, France, in 1996:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=783QnFBF ... annel_page" target="_blank

A photo of the new instrument was taken a week ago in our living room, with the horn framed by 2 book-cases of tuba statuettes. You can see it by clicking "larger image" in the 2nd photo in the left column on this page:
http://www.elinewberger.com/about.html" target="_blank

Warm greetings,

Eli

enewberger wrote:

A photo of the new instrument was taken a week ago in our living room, with the horn framed by 2 book-cases of tuba statuettes. You can see it by clicking "larger image" in the 2nd photo in the left column on this page:
http://www.elinewberger.com/about.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

Warm greetings,

Eli

Nice "Tuba Kitsch" collection, Eli!

Do you have the one with Disney's "Goofy" playing an Ophicleide?

I'm back
I was locked out of the system with no way to contact anybody (you have to log in if you're having log in problems??)
Thankfully Dr Newberger forwarded my predicament to Sean. Thank you again Dr Newberger

I'm no longer Bobsax (probably best considering the present company);)

Can anybody tell what they think of this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26ps%3D10" target="_blank" target="_blank
bob

bobsacks wrote: Can anybody tell what they think of this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26ps%3D10" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
bob

Looks pretty rough to me. The seller has provided very little information. Do the pistons and slides move freely, e.g.? Since there's really not time left in the auction to have an e-conversation with the seller, I'd let this one go.

bobsacks wrote: Can anybody tell what they think of this one?

Looks good to me - I'd be tempted to buy it myself. But per above evaluation, valves could be in all kinds of trouble, it's one of those unknowns with online auctions. You may be optimistic, or pessimistic, but either way no clue.

But I at least have played one like it. I know its playing characteristics will work OK for me, if it's all sealed up and acoustically sound. I know how well I can get along with only 3 valves. I know I can carry it pretty easily while playing (I have long arms.) No guarantee it will work for you, without playing first.

Thanks CircusBoy
so is it a 0-99-3 ? at least it's not a euphoneum. It's hard for the untrained eye to tell sometimes unless there's a person in the shot.
It doesn't have any valve buttons either and who knows maybe they were broken off and it needs new stems also?
I don't really know what repairs are on brass instruments. I have a bass clarinet that would cost $400 for a repad, more then the instrument is worth.
From what I've learned here so far a certain amount of dents can be lived with so long as it's not the lead-pipe but I'm clueless about getting valves up to snuff.
My dads old 1930's trumpet had the valves worked on years ago. They worked but they certainly didn't play like a new horn.
I just talked to my repairman and he said that if the piston/stem threads were stripped you'd need a new piston, $200+ each

On another subject do you get instant email notifications ?
I thought I signed up for email notifications but I didn't notice how/when they were delivered.

Donn wrote:

bobsacks wrote: Can anybody tell what they think of this one?

Looks good to me - I'd be tempted to buy it myself. But per above evaluation, valves could be in all kinds of trouble, it's one of those unknowns with online auctions. You may be optimistic, or pessimistic, but either way no clue.

But I at least have played one like it. I know its playing characteristics will work OK for me, if it's all sealed up and acoustically sound. I know how well I can get along with only 3 valves. I know I can carry it pretty easily while playing (I have long arms.) No guarantee it will work for you, without playing first.

good points
Thanks Donn
I haven't heard anything about B&H ?
This looks pretty nice to my untrained eyes
http://cgi.ebay.com/BOOSEY-N-HAWKES-TUB ... dZViewItem" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yamaha makes small 3/4 tubas YBB=103, or the 105.

they also make a four valved pro model of the same size (YBB-641? not sure)

Very small and light weight, can easily be carried with a strap and will have a nice compact sound and can often be found on ebay. Jupiter (482 or 378) and Weril also make similar small inexpensive models.

http://www.wwbw.com/Jupiter,Bb-Tubas-Tubas.wwbw" target="_blank



ken k

bobsacks wrote: I haven't heard anything about B&H ?
This looks pretty nice to my untrained eyes

Good opportunity to train your eyes a little better. The Olds that circusboy called "pretty rough" was a hell of a lot nicer than this, it just wasn't quite as shiny.

• image 1, from behind, look at the lower left corner, where you should be able to see a seriously mashed inner branch.
• image 2, from front, lower right corner, similar. These won't make the tuba unplayable, but far from pretty nice.
• images 2 and 4, do you see a leadpipe? Remember the Buescher Eb, leadpipe looked like it might be dented, and that's a major problem? Well, not having any leadpipe at all is quite a serious deficiency.

Look, Boosey & Hawkes is OK. Olds, Buescher, Conn are OK. None of these firms would have gotten very far selling trash. What you're buying is going to be trash not because it's Boosey & Hawkes when you should have gotten Olds, but because it has been beat up too much, or its design doesn't match your needs (can you walk and play a top valve tuba at the same time?) or maybe it just doesn't have the tonal characteristics you had in mind ("contrabass trumpet", was it?)

Most of us seem to have some preferences, favorite models of sousaphone etc., but really that's the least of your worries right now. You need a strategy for getting a cheap tuba that doesn't have problems you can't fix.