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Folks,

Please compare and contrast the playing characteristics of a King 1240 and a Conn 20J. This may remind you of an high school english class assignment, but I am considering buying one of these two horns.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

If you are prepared to handle the weight of the 20J, why not get a 4 valve King?

Klaus

b.williams wrote:Folks,

Please compare and contrast the playing characteristics of a King 1240 and a Conn 20J. This may remind you of an high school english class assignment, but I am considering buying one of these two horns.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

There are virtually no similarities between the two horns you mention. Not from either a physical or a playing point of view. The King is a front-action horn that I think lends itself better to most every situation where the horn has to be held. Being a top-action horn, the Conn is a good candidate for use only in a play-stand. Just my opinion. I know there are those who will quickly point out that the Marching Southerners 20J's routinely march with the big bell-front Conns.

Playing-wise... the King is a more focused sound while the Conn demonstrates a big, round sound.

Play 'em both for a while before making your decision. I've owned several of each and I wouldn't even consider the Conn for the type of playing I do. I think the King is just a more manageable and more versatile horn. Besides... it's easier to find an upright bell for the King!

I agree, you couldn't compare the two horns at all. The King is front action, with a medium small bore. The Conn is top action, with a huge bore. You'd have to play them both for a while to determine which one fits you best. I would have to disagree about using a stand with the 20J. I have never used a stand while playing my 20J and I find the top action valves comfortable. Everybody has there opinion though. I'm not sure about the peddles on a 1240, but on the 20J they are almost perfectly in-tune with the right false fingerings (low Eb-0, D-2, Db-1, C-12, B-23, Bb-0). You don't need a fourth valve as it adds to the weight. Just make sure you use a single tuning bit which the horns were originally supplied with new. Plus, it's very uncomfortable without one. 1240's are ok, but if you want a horn that sounds like the voice of GOD, get the 20J, the end.

As others have said, they are two vastly different horns. The King is a good 4/4 all around horn. While it has a relatively small bore I never found that limiting. It has a more focused sound than the 20J. A 20J has a big rich sound. I would have no problem playing either in a large group, but would hesitate to use a 20J with a smaller group. My preference was for the 22J version (3 front action valves), but I have only ever seen one of those (which I owned for a while), while the top action versions are plentiful. I would chose the King if it were for general playing in a variety of setting, while the Conn would be fine for large ensemble, or if you want that old time big round tuba sound, and can be comfortable with the top action valves.

I agree that the Kings are very versitle all around horns and own and use two myself. The big Conns are Great concert band horns, they sound like a section of bass fiddles, as well as being relatively cheap and plentiful. There are always at least two on Ebay on any given day. But if you are going for the ultimate concert band/ trad jazz band sound they don't hold a candle to the big Martins. My first horn was a 24J, my high school owned a 25J, and when I went in the service my first Army band had all 24J's. The first time I played one of those Martin Mammoths I was floored by the depth and color of the sound. They show up on Ebay from time to time and some go very cheap. If you can try one somewhere you'll see what I mean. Lee Stofer can get upright bells for the Conns or the Martins. Good hunting, Ed

Apples vs. Oranges.
Accord/Camry vs. F250/Silverado 2500

MartyNeilan wrote:Apples vs. Oranges.
Accord/Camry vs. F250/Silverado 2500

Accordion vs. harmonica

if you do not already have a specific horn in mind....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33649&p=296194&hilit=1240#p296194" target="_blank" target="_blank

located near Reading, PA

I own a bell-front Conn 20J and absolutely love the sound I am able to obtain with it. For what I do (only tubist in a local community band with 95% of the playing outside in parks, while sitting) it seemed the best horn for the job.

Mark Heter wrote:Just remember when trying out the big tubas - you will have to transport that horn to and from the rehearsals and jobs, etc.

One of the best things to know about the 20J. It has 2 large cases which dont fit anywhere much smaller than the back of a van/pickup/small barge. If you obtain the horn without a case, you can find ways to transport it in smaller vehicles, but risk damage to the horn doing so.

Thank you for all of the great responses.
I currently play in a community band on a Besson three valve compensating tuba built around 1974 with a Wick 1. We mostly play outside and I am usually the only tuba. I very happy with my Besson, I just wanted to dominate the band. How would an old Miraphone 186 BBb compare to a 20J?
Brian

About the only thing I can add at this point is the observation that the Conn short-action valves are a major distinction from the King. The stroke is very short and VERY fast, almost like what you'd find with trumpet valves. Some folks object to the associated squishing of the pipes - that they make the instruments stuffy - but I don't agree. The last King BBb I played on was way stuffier than any Conn 2XJ I ever tried, and I have owned 2.

I think that recording bells are perfect for outdoor uses.

If you have a king 1240, or a Conn 20J, both will do a good job for an outdoor band concert, provided that they each have a recording bell.

The King has a slight advantage of added versatility, with other, smaller types of ensembles, as well. The Conn has that dark, broad sound, that someone else correctly compared to the sound of a whole string bass section. If you were ONLY playing band concerts (especially outdoors), I think that the Conn would be a great choice. If you want to also play some orchestra, brass quintet, ....etc., then the King would be the way I would go.

The Miraphone 186 Bb is an instrument that is probably the most diametrically opposed to the 20J, in terms of sound concept, that there is, within the Bb family.

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:I think that recording bells are perfect for outdoor uses...... If you want to also play some orchestra, brass quintet, ....etc., then the King would be the way I would go.....

You would probably want to consider also getting an upright bell for the orchestra and brass quintet options, though.... unless you're playing outside under a tree, of course.

I own versions of both, 1965 25J and a 1976 2341 (puchased from fellow T'Netters). More experienced and higher-quality musicians than I have shared their thoughts. Can't disagree with any of the congregation's testimonials. Glorious sound from each; each has a distinctive timbre; love 'em both.

Mark Heter wrote:You can see me honking out the Tschaikovsky 5th on youtube - just look for "Judith Morse" - our conductor - on a Martin.

It's a shame that the camera angles barely focus on the brass--even during brass passages. Yes, you can just barely see you and your Martin in the reduced lighting and camera shots. What orchestra is that?

Steve Marcus wrote:

Mark Heter wrote:You can see me honking out the Tschaikovsky 5th on youtube - just look for "Judith Morse" - our conductor - on a Martin.

It's a shame that the camera angles barely focus on the brass--even during brass passages. Yes, you can just barely see you and your Martin in the reduced lighting and camera shots. What orchestra is that?

Considering this being the Edison orchestra one might have expected a better light on the back rows. However we shouldn’t expect much remorse.

Klaus

When I started college in 1965, we had 2 20j's and 4 Kings. I had played a 20J in high school so naturally I preferred the Conn. However, those Conns were impossible to play in tune. After a year I switched to a King and I used that horn until our band director purchased 3 Mirafone 186's. I have both a 186 and a 1905 era King and I prefer the King because it takes less air to fill and I can do pedal tones just as easily on it as on the 186. I recommend the King.

I never tried a 20J, but when Søren brought most of his arsenal last fall for a common try-out day, I had a go on his predecessor of the current King 2341. Bell front, front action pistons.

That tuba may have had slightly less potential for grandeur than my larger BBb’s, but was it an easyblown and reliable tuba.

Klaus

How did the King compare to your Besson 3+1 compensating BBb?