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So, here's a project for all you small-run mouthpiece tinkerers.

Motivated by the thread on braces - is there any reason why the interface between mouthpiece and face (i.e., the RIM) needs to be hard and shiny? Granted, there are certain advantages (one piece of metal) - but suppose you had a foam pad between the rim and the face, would that work?

Keeping it clean (and attached) look like the obvious challenges. Adding it to an existing mouthpiece (how? - perhaps adhesive, if you are really ambitious, perhaps a special screw-on replacement rim)

But, the first question is: would a foam rim be:

a) impossible - can't play it
b) difficult to get used to
c) no difference
d) a great boon to braces wearers
e) a wonderful idea for all players?

schlepporello wrote:I would think that one hinderance to a soft rimed mouthpiece would be that in order to be soft, there's going to have to be a certain degree of cushioning, hence cushion compression. It stands to my reasoning that compression of a rim is going to change the depth of the cup at one point or another, thus a lot greater care in pressure is going to have to be utilized by the player and a lot more attention paid to intonation and tone.

Would the attention required actually be that great? Who knows? It's still in my opinion an idea that's at least worth trying. We'll never know for sure until someone takes the initiative to try to make one.

BUT...every detail confounding the beginner has the potential to be a useful tool for the virtuoso. Imagine the "variable-depth mouthpiece". Need to switch from large-cup to small-cup? Just apply more pressure. Poof! we now have "mouthpiece-padding vibrato"!

In practice, I'm thinking of cushioning that will normally be *almost* fully compressed *at some points around the rim* - but which pushes out and perhaps provides a better seal everywhere else. I imagine that braces-wearers have this problem: in order to get a decent seal, they need to compress their *lips* (between the braces and the mouthpiece.

An add-on cushion *would* seem to have the side-effect of slightly enlarging the cup - but a screw-thread replacement would not. This might be a *major* incentive to use a screw-thread - different "hardness" rims for different situations.

Oddly enough, that's exactly how one Charles G. Conn got his start in 1874!

Patent 160164

In Jake's 1973 lecture he talks about the variability of the mouthpiece, the instrument and the player. He seemed to advocate experimenting with different mouthpieces to create different tonal colors by using different cup depths, throat and backbores. He didn't mention whether that meant changing cup diameters. One thing he recommended, is that you still use the same rim. Jake said something about muscle memory or something of the like. I would think that with a flexible rim, the mouthpiece would not only feel different but it would (potentially) BE different every time you use it. That sounds counterproductive to conventional thinking.

How much give are you suggesting? Styrofoam (some give, but rigid) or cushy like memory foam? Silly Putty? ...Profit?

What about a tapered inner rim? Dave Unland used a custom Schilke mouthpiece that had a VERY tapered inner rim. He liked to describe it as a "fretless mouthpiece" because you really couldn't anchor your lips quite like a conventional mouthpiece. I would think something like that might be fairly comfortable for someone wearing braces.

Our geography makes it relevant to run long passenger trains across the two main islands. These trains are joined/split when leaving/entering the main peninsula. The fast assemblies are made possible by huge rubber buffers at the ends of the motorised sections (= no locomotives). The rubber buffers only become airtight because they are under a lot of pressure.

Airtightness is a major feature of the mouthpiece-embouchure joint. Even the self-acclaimed non-pressure players apply some pressure to seal the embouchure. The amount of pressure needed basically depends on the structure of the player’s lip tissue.

Making the mouthpiece rim soft will not diminish the needed amount of pressure only make it less calculable, because the permutations of rim deformation are infinite.

In my personal experience a sharp edge gives a much more efficient seal than a rounded rim with no edge. The sharper edge gives a well-defined grip. A round edge has to be pressed further down into the lip tissue.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote: The sharper edge gives a well-defined grip. A round edge has to be pressed further down into the lip tissue.

Klaus

That's a different issue (well, it's related - but that would take us too far afield.

Consider - if you want to get as much of your body in contact with the bed as possible, do you lie on a steel bed, or a mattress which conforms to your shape?

For a player, the *perceived* pressure (i.e., the pain - with braces) is a function of the pressure at the HIGH points.

For making a proper seal, the important pressure is at the LOW points.

With an unyielding mouthpiece, you must press hard enough so that you get enough pressure at the low points in your anatomy to make a proper seal.

With a padded rim, the padding would deform so that pressure would TEND TO be equalized - you would have the same pressure everywhere, no matter what hills and valleys there are in your face (and, if you have braces, there are lots of "hills").

This is the good news for padding.

I think the bad news has to do with ease of moving about on the mouthpiece (slipperyness). It might be hard to come up with a surface that was both padded AND very smooth.

I think you could just find a comfortable mouthpiece or just get used to playing with braces...I just think there are too many problems with fabricating a padded mouthpiece that offers comfort and playability. I'm sure sometime in the next few years/decades, it could be done but I think it's a little too impractical at the moment.

I had braces for about 7-8 years and had very few problems with my playing since I found a mouthpiece that was comfortable enough for the type of playing I did.