Tuba Pricing

[averagejoe]

Was anybody else impressed by how fast Blokes horn went in the for sale section? He stated that horns will go if you put them up for the right price. That got me thinking, is there any sort of "blue book" for tubas? What tubas keep their value best? How do you move a horn without ripping yourself off? Maybe somebody can compile a list of some of the horns that have gone here on tubenet and the prices they went at considering their condition. People could save themselves a lot of frustration if they knew upfront what their horn was really worth. I have a ton of time, being summer and not having a job , so I could try to do this. The only thing is that, because I am not a repair tech or anything, I would be unable to "fill in the gaps" so to speak for when there is no example of a horn here on tubenet or at a store such as Dillons. I would assume that when selling personally you should automatically put a 5-10% discount under the stores used prices. Another way would be if somebody came up with a formula, based on percentages, to figure out a rough approximation of how much a tuba is worth. Like 10% of new price if in perfect condition, 50% off if in fair condtition and so on. Any thoughts?

[The Jackson]

There was a method for getting accurate appraisals that at least bloke has mentioned in the past. I believe it entailed putting the horn up on eBay as if to sell it, but placing the reserve at a very high value so as to not actually sell the horn, but still see what some folks were willing to pay for it with the bids. I think that's how it went, but I may be wrong.

[averagejoe]

Did anybody record the prices that the tubas were "appraised" for?

[Uncle Buck]

The buyers market is simply too small for that kind of across-the-board assessment. You can't just put a formula together that says: XX model, with XX percent finish wear and XX dents, will sell for $X,XXX within XX days.

Example: every instrument I have seen bloke put up for sale (either here or on eBay) has been for a good price. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that a 20J in the condition of his, for $750, will sell pretty darn quickly. It also doesn't necessarily warrant "look how good I am at selling tubas quickly at low prices" chest thumping.

His $3,950 Miraphone 184 is probably just as good a deal as the Conn - but it will take a little longer to sell because there are fewer potential buyers out there for that particular model at that particular price point.

Sure, some people spend too much on purchases and then try to sell them for pretty close to what they paid. Sometimes it takes those individuals a while to realize they can't find a buyer who is as big a sucker as they were recently.

Like I said, not rocket science. It's not a crime to make an initial attempt to sell something at an ambitious price point. It's also not a crime to want to make a quick sale by dropping a price.

Best way to find out what the real market is for an item: the eBay method already mentioned.

[sailn2ba]

Interesting thread. .. You can get some idea by looking at the prices dealers put on their used horns.
Anyhow, this leads me to wonder if there couldn't be a listing of the horns currently on the For Sale page of this net.

[MartyNeilan]

Sometimes, you just don't know. I bought a very rough condition "Weimar" CC tuba from BBC a couple of years ago. A decent 3/4-small 4/4 CC with a few minor quirks, but had definitely seen better days. On the plus side, the rotors had recently been replated and valve compression was outstanding. I listed it on squeezebay less than a year after purchasing it, once I acquired my KaliBAT. I placed a buy-it-now of just slightly higher than what I paid for the horn. After submitting the listing, I went back to verify that the page was up and running. A legitimate buyer had already purchased the horn!

[pierso20]

Sometimes, you just don't know.

This is important and, as mentioned earlier, the more expensive the horn the fewer potential buyers.

If you are selling a handmade baer horn for 18000, sure it's a good deal...however it is still very expensive and may not get picked up right away.

The key with the horn is to not try and get greedy by listing it for exactly what you paid for it or more (other than some adjustment for inflation). I mean, technically you could sell a crap horn for 12000 if someone would buy it, so picking a price that you consider reasonable is important. Yes, you can use Ebay, however that still depends on how many people may be on Ebay to buy a horn and whether or not people looking for a horn used ebay at that time.

The most important thing is to judge what you payed for it and how the horns condition compares to how it is at the time you decide to sell. Then, make sure you are honest about the horn (people may know when someone is lying) and post ads at multiple places with many pictures and lots of info.

This is all what i think at least.

[bort]

And when all else fails, tack on a good "Or best offer." People will tell you what they'd rather pay for it.

[The Big Ben]

bloke "Contrary to the views of Donn and Uncle Buck, I believe one can nearly put a formula together that says: XX model, with XX percent finish wear and XX dents, will sell for $X,XXX within XX days."

I had a friend in the camera business (since retired) who could do the same with all sorts of camera gear. His 40 years in the used camera business allowed him to put together a formula such as Bloke mentioned. The marketing of used merchandise is so much different from marketing new merchandise. So many more uncontrollable variables.

[imperialbari]

In a fairly closed-curcle-market like carried out on TubeNet sellers with a reputation will sell faster than sellers without a reputation.

One such successful seller also operated in a market, where he hardly has the same reputation alone due to being less known there. According to himself he suffered quite a bleeding in a certain sales situation. He may have come out on top in the bigger picture, though.

Klaus

[Donn]

Contrary to the views of Donn and Uncle Buck, I believe one can nearly put a formula together that says: XX model, with XX percent finish wear and XX dents, will sell for $X,XXX within XX days.

Since my view has already been alluded to, I guess it's time to come up with one. As I read this topic for the first time this morning, I was thinking how futile it would be to try to estimate the value of my tubas for our blue book, but then my tubas are not like a Conn 20J.

What is my little Orsi Eb worth? My big Czech Eb 4V rotary helicon? Well, no one wants to know anyway, but there are plenty of tubas out there, somewhere between the above and a 20J in terms of obscurity, and sometimes very interesting. Just scanning the current used list on Dillons, how about a custom built Buescher C, 5 rotary valves, 19" bell, .768 bore? How long will it take to sell, at its current price of $8500? B&S 3103 Bb at $4200?

Next, I'm not you. I might eventually be able to sell my helicon for the same price as you, but not in the same time. As a private party with no notable credentials, I'm selling a tuba with a higher Unknown factor. This would have to be in your equation, if the equation is supposed to hold for any seller. [I see Klaus already mentions this.]

I'm in Seattle. The immediate local market is fairly good sized, I suppose, but I think the regional market ("I would be willing to drive 5 hours to meet you") is kind of small. If it's going to sell via Greyhound to a distant buyer who has never seen it, that doesn't matter, but I've done that and I think I learned my lesson. This has to be factored in.

So ... sure, maybe there exists a commodity tuba market, of 20Js, well known Miraphone models, etc., whose value may be somewhat predictable, under the right circumstances.

[Eric B]

Hay Averagejoe,
Art Hovey has a web page called tuba logic which mentions the existence of such a blue book of "what it sold for" prices.
He's bin doing it for around five years.
A link to his web page is in his thread about being on TV this morning.

Here is the link to Art Hovey's very interesting (and highly data rich) tuba site. There are some creative frankenhorns on here too BTW! I've copied the section about the Tuba Bluebook Project below the link.

http://galvanizedjazz.com/tuba.html" target="_blank

27. Tuba Bluebook Project: I have been saving Ebay tuba sales on CDR for four years now. I'm pretty sure that I got every tuba and helicon that was sold, along with some of the sousaphones, euphoniums, and mouthpieces. I did not save "new" instruments from China and India, however. These records can give you a good idea of how supply and demand work in the world of used tubas. The CDRs have separate folders for different types of instrument. If you have Windows 98 or Windows XP you can open the files with Netscape, Opera, or Internet Explorer just as you would on the Net. Please email me if you would like copies. One disk goes through October of 2002, the second goes from then through October 2003, the third through 2004, and the fourth covers 2005. I can mail any of them to you for $5 apiece, plus postage. I accept checks or PayPal.

-Art Hovey-
ahovey2@gmail.com" target="_blank

[averagejoe]

that tuba bluebook project looks great. I think that everyone should get it if they will be selling or buying horns.