TubeNet

Hi,

I was near Hamburg for my job and visited the Gronitz company this morning.

Any specific questions?

Wim (back already)

Yeah -- where are your pictures?

mmm, well,
1- I did not bring a camera with me,

and 2- there was nothing there that has not been posted on tubenet yet (search on "Gronitz")

There's a small display room, with a small workshop behind it, on the first floor of an ordinary building in the city.
The two owners are the only people there, receiving visitors, doing repairs and building tubas and trumpets.
They have the capacity to build 20 tubas per year, but are happy to build 10 of them on average per year. (that's what they sell per year)
There were more tubas in the shop than there were ever before, because American people seem to have put their Gronitz purchase on hold. (crisis you know) Shame on you ! So there was a slight PCK overstock.
Export to the States is their main business, so there were only C and F tubas there.
They were building a PBK BBb model too, but nothing more to see than a couple of tubes for now... (maybe by october they will have finished it).
The shop was full of tubas in different stages of repair or construction (I could not really tell what part belonged to what tuba).

I played the PCK model there, because that one is quite identical to the PBK (same horn, longer tube and minus 5th valve, according to mr. Kleine-Horst), the model in which I was really interested.
Apart from the fact that this was the longest time I have spent with a CC tuba ever (which is 20 minutes actually) I enjoyed it quite a lot !
It's a very resonant horn, with a nice and deep voice, pleasant piston valve action and very compact and comfortable to hold.
The instrument is quite large (in width) , but lightweight.
Apart from the pistons and the bell, every single part is made in-house.

I enjoyed being there, and a PBK is definitely a candidate if I will buy a new horn once.

One down, several other manufacturers to go !

Wim

oedipoes wrote:...on the first floor of an ordinary building ...

Which is Euro-speak for what the rest of the world calls "second floor".

Is he still making double valves himself? He swore he was gonna stop. Quite the process to watch.

LJV wrote:Did they mention that Meinl Weston/Melton now builds the PCK for them? That PCK surplus comes from the minimum batch numbers required. They anticipated a demand that was met by their competitor and contract builder's "sister horn."

Seem like nice folks.

And what would be the sister horn then?
I read a similar remark about Meister W Nirschl horns, you didn't mix these two up?

They told me explicitely that the horns are made in-house, except for the pistons and bells, for which they have not the expensive tooling and equipment.
As far as I could tell from the stock of various tubes, bells and other parts, they were well-capable of making the PCK, PBK and others in their workshop.
I did no FBI-like investigations about the activities of this small company, but the owners seemed very friendly and honest people to me.
Apart from that, I don't care too much, the horns are priced ok and play like a dream.

Nothing to do with Gronitz specifically, but outsourcing is a well-accepted way of producing things. When I opened my "Grundig" TV for repair recently, I noticed it had a "Philips" TV tube, and "Nokia" speakers.

Wim

anybody else that can comment on this?

Yes, I asked Dietrich about it, and he did say that some of the work is being done by JA (Meinl Weston is one of JA's brands), but it looks like they still do much of the work in house. It's common for brass makers to buy bells and valves elsewhere. I believe Alexander does that as well.

Ferguson

From Dietrich:


Hi Steve,
since my old bell maker decided to stop the production of
tuba bells,I looked around to find anyone to make the bells
for me.After trying 2 others which I found not sartisfying,
I tried Wenzel Meinl (Meinl-Weston),and they did a good job.
So since then I get the bells from them.We never did laquering
and plating ourselves and after trying others I found out that
JA music makes the best job in silverplating.In between I'm
67 years old and I looked to find someone to do grinding
and polishing work for me,but I couldn't find one.So I decided
to let the Wenzel Meinl company do it.Now the procedure
for piston tubas is : I'm sending the parts and valves (Bauerfeind)
to Geretsried,they do grinding,polishing ,completing and the finish,
and I get it back ready to use.
All work done by WM is controlled by me,
the quality is the same as ever,the finish is better as ever.
Rotor instruments are still made in Hamburg.
The reason is that I have to retire sometimes but cannot find
anyone to take over.The young guys would like to earn much
money,but not to do hard and dirty tuba work.
I do not understand what there is of importance for the players,.
Other companies let doing big parts of their production in china
(Yamaha) and nobody finds it annoying.

Because of the poor economy I have more instruments in stock
as as otherwise.
3 PCK's (2silver,1laquer) 3 PF125 (laquer) 2 PCM's (1silver1laquer)

Best regards,
Dietrich

Ferguson wrote:Yes, I asked Dietrich about it, and he did say that some of the work is being done by JA (Meinl Weston is one of JA's brands), but it looks like they still do much of the work in house. It's common for brass makers to buy bells and valves elsewhere. I believe Alexander does that as well.

Ferguson

From Dietrich:


Hi Steve,
since my old bell maker decided to stop the production of
tuba bells,I looked around to find anyone to make the bells
for me.After trying 2 others which I found not sartisfying,
I tried Wenzel Meinl (Meinl-Weston),and they did a good job.
So since then I get the bells from them.We never did laquering
and plating ourselves and after trying others I found out that
JA music makes the best job in silverplating.In between I'm
67 years old and I looked to find someone to do grinding
and polishing work for me,but I couldn't find one.So I decided
to let the Wenzel Meinl company do it.Now the procedure
for piston tubas is : I'm sending the parts and valves (Bauerfeind)
to Geretsried,they do grinding,polishing ,completing and the finish,
and I get it back ready to use.
All work done by WM is controlled by me,
the quality is the same as ever,the finish is better as ever.
Rotor instruments are still made in Hamburg.
The reason is that I have to retire sometimes but cannot find
anyone to take over.The young guys would like to earn much
money,but not to do hard and dirty tuba work.
I do not understand what there is of importance for the players,.
Other companies let doing big parts of their production in china
(Yamaha) and nobody finds it annoying.

Because of the poor economy I have more instruments in stock
as as otherwise.
3 PCK's (2silver,1laquer) 3 PF125 (laquer) 2 PCM's (1silver1laquer)

Best regards,
Dietrich

Thanks for this information Ferguson !
As I stated, outsourcing has become common. If the design is good, and the built quality too, you should get a very nice tuba.
At this price, Gronitz tubas are quite a good deal in my opinion. Especially after having tried the PCK, and having met the designer in person.

Wim

oedipoes wrote:mmm, well,
Export to the States is their main business, so there were only C and F tubas there.

Ironically, the one Gronitz I have lusted over was their big Eb piston valve PE-55 bass. But, though a native of and resident in the States, I'm the exception that proves the rule, inasmuch as I would be highly unlikely to spend the money to buy one. Seemed to be well received by those (optimistically using the plural) who bought it, but I wonder how many ever sold over here - two or three?

To spell out a question of the implied message of this thread:

Are the PCK and the Thor very similar?

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:To spell out a question of the implied message of this thread:

Are the PCK and the Thor very similar?

Klaus

No the PCK and Thor are very different beasts. I played both at TMEA and the PCK is closer to the 6450 than the Thor. Possibly even somewhere between the 2 would be a more accurate description.