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Does anyone know if any of the premiere military bands require their tuba players to play on CC horns?

[quote="SSOtuba" my brain recalls a time when the entire tuba section from the Army Field Band at Ft. Meade were playing MW 2165 6/4 horns... I *think*.

The fact that 99% of all players in the premiere bands play CC is a matter of choice, not a requirement. The contrabass tuba is where you earn your bread and butter in the premiere bands, and the truth of the matter is most of the people holding those jobs are people coming from an educational/musical environment where CC tuba is the dominant instrument choice of professional players.
FWIW...[/quote]

Great question!
FWIW:
When I won the audition for the Bicentennial Band and
moved to D.C. in the mid 70s we were provided with
MW BBbs with heavy travel cases, but I was allowed
to use my own CC. Later I joined the Field Band and at
that time we had 2 on CC and 2 on BBb. The next boss
cut our section from 4 to 3 and soon after we had some vacancies. All auditioners at that time at that time were
playing CC and I got to order 3 Mira 188s for the section.
It was a great sound.
The MW 2165s were to come later and over time have since been replaced.

During those days:
Jeff Arwood (The U.S. Army Band) was a monster on CC
but got to perform a lot in the band with his incredible Boosey 'F'. Jeff's recording of the VW Concerto is one of
the best ever.

Marty Erickson was a fantastic soloist with his
Navy Band huge Martin BBb. Later, he only sounded
better on Eb.

Tom Lyckberg (Marine Band) was playing everything you
could throw at him, including virtuoso cornet solos on
a big BBb.

"There were giants in those days"

I don't believe CC is a requirement, but those are the horns that the bands now own.
Good Luck, Marine!

richland tuba 01 wrote:you know if you look at all the music in general that you would play on a normal basis in a military band a BBb actually makes more sense. Just Saying.

horse hockey. Fingerings should be no issue on any tuba.

Yes, I agree: it should not be an issue. But I'm too lazy to use 23 instead of 1 all the time for Eb. But if I was handed a CC and told to use it. I'd have my 3rd & pinky well limbered up for the next rehearsal.

I do agree that a Bb is a bit more "natural" in the band literature, but not for the reasons of fingering.

[WARNING....GENERALIZATION ALLERT!] In my experience, the average Bb has a slightly darker sound (and very often broader, too), than the average CC. When you play in band, you are filling the bass function much more than a soloistic role, so the darker, broader sound of a Bb can be an asset there.

Toad Away wrote: Tom Lyckberg (Marine Band) was playing everything you
could throw at him, including virtuoso cornet solos on
a big BBb.

I'd like to throw something at Tom. Does it have to be music related?

How about a tire iron?

There is no requirement in the Marine Band. If someone brings in a BBb to rehearsal, yipee. If someone wants to play Eb, yipee. Tom Holtz has recorded with the Marine Band using a patched-together helicon. Big yipee.

iiipopes wrote:Yes, I agree: it should not be an issue. But I'm too lazy to use 23 instead of 1 all the time for Eb. But if I was handed a CC and told to use it. I'd have my 3rd & pinky well limbered up for the next rehearsal.

I'm lazy too, I'd much prefer to use open instead of 13 for C. It goes both ways.

Just a few observations:

Preference
- Most music you will play (and VERY IMPORTANT- audition on) is in and below the staff.
- A contrabass would TYPICALLY be easier to cover this range with more ease and clarity than a bass tuba.


Selection
- There's more high quality CC's to choose from (new and used) than high quality BBb's.
- There's more high quality larger CC's to choose from high quality larger BBb's (arms race).
- Most tubists now use CC as their main horn because for a couple decades CC's have been pushed as 'a better' horn'.

I'm not saying which horn of which key is the best, but which is the most convenient. Hooray for choices!

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:I do agree that a Bb is a bit more "natural" in the band literature, but not for the reasons of fingering.

[WARNING....GENERALIZATION ALLERT!] In my experience, the average Bb has a slightly darker sound (and very often broader, too), than the average CC. When you play in band, you are filling the bass function much more than a soloistic role, so the darker, broader sound of a Bb can be an asset there.

cause <--> effect?

NDSPTuba wrote:

iiipopes wrote:Yes, I agree: it should not be an issue. But I'm too lazy to use 23 instead of 1 all the time for Eb. But if I was handed a CC and told to use it. I'd have my 3rd & pinky well limbered up for the next rehearsal.

I'm lazy too, I'd much prefer to use open instead of 13 for C. It goes both ways.

You use 3 valve BBb's and CC's?

To my knowlege, the only requirement is that you generally must be able to hold your own on a sousaphone in American military bands, so a rudimentary knowlege of BBb fingerings is necessary. Otherwise, you can play most anything you want in concert band, as long as you get the job done, and done well.

During my 22 years, I mostly played my personal CC for the first 16 years, then "discovered" old American BBb tubas, and played a BBb for the most part for the remaining 6 years. I have used an F tuba and an Eb in military bands also, and in the proper context they work fine, too. A wise teacher of mine once told me that the sound is the issue, not what key the instrument is in. I still mostly play BBb tuba these days, and if you play it well-enough, no one cares what key it is in.

My colleague in the Coast Guard Band, Rich Denton (who won't mind my talking about him), auditioned and won his job on a Rudy 5/4 BBb. He learned CC AFTER getting the gig and started using gov't horns for practical reasons and because he liked the particular Hirsbrunner HB2 we had.

I beg him to bring his 5/4 Rudy in sometimes. It sounds great in band, not because it's in BBb but because it's a great horn played by a great player.

jon112780 wrote:Just a few observations:
- There's more high quality CC's to choose from (new and used) than high quality BBb's.

Could this simply be a matter of perception? The guys who build professional contrabass tubas w/the U.S market in mind are going to push the CC tubas our way, not the BBb's.

jon112780 wrote: - Most tubists now use CC as their main horn because for a couple decades CC's have been pushed as 'a better' horn'.

I agree completely. We teach what we were taught, and so forth. However, I personally believe we (as a community) are beginning to think/listen more globally, resulting in a recent (though subtle) increase in popularity for the BBb tuba, even in major U.S. orchestras. Might also have something to do with the realization that, in light of the recent surge of performance-related ailments, it's in our best interest to let the equipment do the work whenever possible, as opposed to the player. IOW, if one wants a BBb sound, one should play a BBb tuba (rather than a 7/4 CC tuba w/a jumbo mpc). However you slice it, I personally think this is a good thing.

Of all the big tubas I've played, CC and BBb, there were more BBb's that had the sound and tone I prefered. Now I am a BBb player so that might have something to do with it. But If you sound good on a horn and know it well, use it. There is no need to "make the switch" if it is not necessary. I love my 20J and prefer the sound of it over any new CC tuba I've tried. Just make sure you love playing the horn you choose and have fun with it. My 2 favorite BBb's (that I have played) are the Conn 2XJ series, and the Willson 3100. My favorite CC is the HB-50..haven't played another one that I just fell in love with

Adam C. wrote:My colleague in the Coast Guard Band, Rich Denton (who won't mind my talking about him), auditioned and won his job on a Rudy 5/4 BBb. He learned CC AFTER getting the gig and started using gov't horns for practical reasons and because he liked the particular Hirsbrunner HB2 we had.

I beg him to bring his 5/4 Rudy in sometimes. It sounds great in band, not because it's in BBb but because it's a great horn played by a great player.

Glad to hear that "Caesar" is still getting some playing time.