TubeNet

Are there any short bell stack BBb's out there? The only one's I know of are the Miraphone 191/1291 and the BBb version of the Cerveny 'Piggy'. They could be 4/4 or 5/4 size (as the examples). I am trying to stay in the game, but the long stack on my 186 keeps the sound a little too far from my head (I play by resonance and memory of pitch).

Any suggestions?

Thank you.
Jim

One of the new King 2341s? Those seem pretty short.

Want it shorter?:



K

I believe Cerveny makes quite a few short-stack BBb's. The one I like best is the Kaiser Arion: http://www.eng.cerveny.co.at/tuben/bbb_ ... 93_4mr.php She's a big girl in a small package. Willson's BBb is also a short-stack: http://www.willson.ch/instr_e/tuba/bbbt ... fa-5-e.pdf

Ditto on the King 2341.

Even a St. Pete isn't all that tall.

The Meinl-Weston 18 is a good short-belled BBb which will provide a similar size of tone to a 186. I was impressed when I tried one - excellent low register

* (3/4 Compact)
* "Handy"
* 4 rotary valves
* bell diameter: 17.75in
* .748in bore
* height 37.4in
* weight 9,5kg

Maybe that I am stating the obvious, but a good 4v sousaphone would be in BBb, play very vell and bring the bell very close to your ear.

A Willson 3100 BBb is compactly wrapped so short to the ear. (950mm high)
However, some say the metal on this horn is so thick that the sound is only good in the audience, not for the player (little feedback).
I played it myself in Frankfurt and thought is was a high quality horn, but heavy to carry.

Wim

This is off the main track a bit, but I agree with you about the 186. Mine is the detachable bell variant, which has had a St Pete bell retrofitted by Vince. It shortened the stack. It also necessitated the main tuning slide be extended a couple inches on each leg. It made the horn more balanced to hold, and changed some of the intonation characteristics. It helped some of the flat 5th partials, so now only the midline D needs an alternate fingering.

Without reengineering your current instrument, I'm inclined to agree with the M-W 18 "Handy."

If you want to go with something less expensive, TubaMM.com has a model that is their model of a piggy, their model 210.

Søren wrote:Maybe that I am stating the obvious, but a good 4v sousaphone would be in BBb, play very vell and bring the bell very close to your ear.

It's worth a try, but for me that's actually the worst case - I mean, for example playing outdoors, I can hear myself more clearly with any other tuba. The bell's close, but so wide that I'm in a sound shadow right behind it. That may have nothing to do with the resonance jmerring is talking about, though.

I love them!

Another vote for the current (new) model King 2341. They are approximately 33 - 34 inches tall (838 - 863 mm) with that wide 20 inch "American" bell flair (508 mm) . There are also antique models of the 1240 or 1241 with the compact wrap, (but I'm not giving up mine in this lifetime!!! ) Think of horns with the proportions of a "Monster E-flat" tuba. Very up-close and personal.

If you want the bell even closer to your head, have your technician re-bend the lead pipe to move the mounting brace, mouthpiece and receiver forward and/or a little higher up the bell. Both of these will bring the bell flair closer to your head. Just make sure it doesn't block the eye closest to the bell from viewing your music and the conductor. Caveat emptor: As some of our tubenet brethren and sistern have found through painful experience....don't chop yourself in the forehead with that closer bell rim.

Nice list from the gang: Check all the Tubenet Sponsors, then lists and auction sites for used models.
MW-Handy
Cerveney-Piggy or Arion
Newer model King 2341
Older American compact designs: Kings, Conns, Bueschers
MM - looks like a copy of the MW-Handy model.

Good hunting!

These have all been wonderful ideas (Klaus; that 3 valve model wins the prize for shortest). I thank all of you, very much.

imperialbari wrote:Want it shorter?:



K

I can't tell from the website ( http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showrub, ... ni,,,,.htm ) how they can make the same small horn in BBb OR F - maybe Bb or F (like a 4 valve Bb Euphonium can play somewhat the same range as a 3 valve F Tuba?)

Seems like a BBb would have a lot more pipe to fold into that small package!

Another TubeNetter found out about the Tornistertuba project initiated by Bob Tucci. I sadly don’t remember who, as I have a huge problems with remembering names, but not persons.

The F and BBb tubas are variations on the same frame kind of like the Yamaha 621 basses. Both pitches apparently also may be had with four valves and the F tuba furthermore may be had with a trigger. But as I have read about the project no samples but for the 3 rotor BBb has been made yet.

I would want to try these Tornistertuben, but I see no real relation between the price level and their playing potentials.

Klaus

It would be interesting to do a play comparison of the the F Tornistertuba against the M-W travel tuba.

Neptune wrote:It would be interesting to do a play comparison of the the F Tornistertuba against the M-W travel tuba.

I agree with you!

I don’t know the specs of the MW Travel F, but appears to be even more expensive than the Tucci ones.

A common advise is to search the archives, which I did using Markneukirchen as the search word. More relevant terms lead to no results.

Here is the link for the relevant frame of the maker’s site:

http://www.hsm-brass.de/tornistentuba/t ... ntuba.html

The photos may be enlarged by clicking them.

At 15mm the bore for the BBb version is down at euphonium level.

Klaus

They are both 15mm bore and both about the same height. Just the bell smaller on the M-W at 220mm against 240mm. But with the detachable bell, the M-W travel tuba would be easier to transport.

While it's certainly true that the position of the bell to one's own ears makes a big difference how the horn sounds to the player.... isn't what's really important is how the horn sounds to others? I've always thought the true test to be a recording of different horns in the same environment to be most useful tool in determining just how a horn sounds.

TubaTinker wrote:While it's certainly true that the position of the bell to one's own ears makes a big difference how the horn sounds to the player.... isn't what's really important is how the horn sounds to others?

Of course, but the OP is in an unusual position with respect to how the horn sounds to the player.

I know from my own more usual case, that how the horn sounds to me becomes much more important than you might think, when I can't hear myself at all for some reason, like a loud band in a live hall or something. At that point I'm down to mechanical playing - sequence of fingerings as I remember them - and that's really not how I play, I need ear feedback or it just falls apart. It's also hard to gauge how loud you need to be to balance the rest of the ensemble. I guess this accounts for bands where, as you walk towards them, you can hear the sousaphone a block before everyone else.

Other options:

Yamaha YBB-621
Holton Phillips model BBb (TU331)

If you have some time and money, Matt Walters could probably turn one of those old Eb's into a solid BBb. The result would be similar to the new King 2341. If I were to buy a 2341 (new or used), I'd probably buy it through Dillon's and have him go over it extensively.