Creating a Tuba Wiki database with all tubas there are

[toeter]

Hi all,

I'm looking around to find myself a good new f tuba these days, and I more and more regret the fact there's no database available anywhere on the net with all tuba models conveniently arranged. There used to be an Instrument Database at tubanews.com, but it's long gone and doesn't seem to come back.
So I thought a wiki might just be a good idea. Everyone can supply information about the instruments he's familiar with, everyone can correct if the info supplied is wrong.
Information the database must contain at least would have to be:
-availability
-key
-valve arrangements
-bore
-receiver size
-bell size
-if possible, a 'review' section with user experiences.

Before I invest time in creating such a thing, I thought it'd be a good idea to see what you guys think of it. Would you want to cooperate? Would you use it? Please let me know.

[Tuba Guy]

I would be willing to put my tubas in there (Getzen CB50, York Eb, Conn 27J, Martin Monster, Cerveny CEB641 (still for sale..anyone?), and soon Cerveny CBB701)
Something to think about, would you include marching tubas (contras, convertables, and sousaphones)?
What about euphoniae or trombones/bass trombones?
Hm, what if we were to get in touch with a trumpet forum (if one exists?), and trombone forum, and we all work together to make a "big book of brass badassery" type wiki. With all brass instruments...could be cool

[toeter]

a "big book of brass badassery"[...]could be cool

I agree with you on that. However, I don't see much practical value in one big heap of brass instrument information. Especially because I think the main interest of the wiki would be for tubists to access info about brands/models easily, when comparing tubas. And tubists will be mainly (though maybe not solely) interested in tubas, and have information on tubas to share.
Sousaphones could be included I think, since sousaphone are played by tubists.
Euphoniums I don't know... But the number of different euphs is only small compared to the tuba range, I guess.

Besides this I think an All-Brass-Database would create practical problems (bandwidth etc.). A small wiki can be set up for free.

[Tuba Guy]

True enough. Maybe we could suggest it to other brass players, and eventually link it all together somehow. It's always cool to see how different brass instruments are really realated

[Dan Schultz]

Good idea. I see LOTS of tubas and will be glad to share whatever information I can.

[imperialbari]

Would this database be able to tell whether Brüno plays the Kronos, or is that a question for Sacramento to answer?



http://www.schagerl.at/new_pages/Kronos_A5_Web.pdf

[David Richoux]

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http://www.schagerl.at/new_pages/Kronos_A5_Web.pdf

Es ist schön, wenn die Tuba ist so konzipiert, exakt auf Ihre Stirn.

[iiipopes]

http://www.brassreview.com" target="_blank does have a tuba section already, although granted, there are probably more reviews of various tubas littered about the various threads here than there.

http://www.brass-forum.co.uk" target="_blank has a manufacturer's links webpage so you can directly link to mfg specs and cut down on the surfing time.

[DonShirer]

If you build it, they will come....!

Und Ja, David, dieses Tuba ist ein ausserordentlichunverkbargimmik!

[Steve Marcus]

There was an instrument database at http://www.tubanews.com" target="_blank. But as one of its founders/administrators posted:

We did eliminate the instrument data base (1) because it was not compatible with the new system we have put in place, (2) because it was not user friendly for people to add new entries... in fact, it is now virtually impossible, and (3) we have a trick up our sleeve to replace it with a new system, but we have not worked out the bugs. Stay tuned and patient. I'll look into it and see if there is any way we can simply get the old database where it can be viewed, but I do not think it is possible. We are trying to get the new one functioning so we can open it up to the public, so stay with us!

[pierso20]

Hi all,

I'm looking around to find myself a good new f tuba these days, and I more and more regret the fact there's no database available anywhere on the net with all tuba models conveniently arranged. There used to be an Instrument Database at tubanews.com, but it's long gone and doesn't seem to come back.
So I thought a wiki might just be a good idea. Everyone can supply information about the instruments he's familiar with, everyone can correct if the info supplied is wrong.
Information the database must contain at least would have to be:
-availability
-key
-valve arrangements
-bore
-receiver size
-bell size
-if possible, a 'review' section with user experiences.

Before I invest time in creating such a thing, I thought it'd be a good idea to see what you guys think of it. Would you want to cooperate? Would you use it? Please let me know.

I'm thinking that maybe you should have this thread in the feedback tab; This would really be a good addition to TubeNet. Sean could easily create a locked thread for every tuba that is suggested which has a picture and information about the horn.

[sailn2ba]

I would certainly use it over the next few months. I'd like to see height and weight included.

[Alex C]

I think a database would be interesting. From what I can tell, M-W F tubas would take up three or four pages all by themselves.

Interesting is the right word, but how helpful? When you are considering a tuba (not just F's), how do you compare a small bore tuba like a Martin with a large bore tuba like the Alexander. Bore size is irrelevant. Bell diameters would be confusing. I'm not even sure the 163 vs. a 164 would show up as all that different if you use published specs.

And for the nay-sayers, yes I only referred to BBb tubas above but that is because I don't know F tuba as well. Ibelieve the principal applies to F tubas as well.

In reference to the European manufacturers: I was reading one of the Malcolm Galdwell books (think it was "Tipping Point") where he was talking about manufacturers' products. He said that research showed that when the consumer was confronted with too many choices, they generally made no choice. Ergo, WalMart carries a limited variety of items. Compare WalMart's tool selection with an old time hardware store, or their grocery selection with an old like grocery chain. Limited variety.

Applying this to tuba, if you have the option of three F tubas, you would be more able to choose one. If you have the option of thirty you will likely delay or avoid a purchase until you are presented with a single choice. Food for thought.

I believe most musicians look for sound, response, intonation and price in an instrument. Specs may be interesting but they tell a minor part of the story.

[pierso20]

In reference to the European manufacturers: I was reading one of the Malcolm Galdwell books (think it was "Tipping Point") where he was talking about manufacturers' products. He said that research showed that when the consumer was confronted with too many choices, they generally made no choice.

Maybe. Though, I think many tuba players completely rule out possibilities and limit themselves enough as it is. Most players don't even consider half of the possibilities since we are often so limited as to funds. Maybe if the product was something more inexpensive, however with tuba's (like like automobiles) we have SOOO many choices, and many are ruled out by "color, number or doors, brands, etc...". So I don't think too many choices would truly be a problem. I think the type of person who would be interested in the usefulness of that sort of wiki database would be the type of person who may do a lot of research before purchasing, in which I think would at least save a ton of time.


As you said, how useful would specs like bore size be? And to most people, probably not important. But I think just having so many tubas in one place, maybe a separate page for each which a picture/description and bore sizes, valves, HEIGHT (which is not often included enough) and weight (which is a HUGE factor for many people) would be very useful (and by my admittance, fun)

[imperialbari]

A related computer programme question:

I only own one database application, the one Apple issued in 1991 (FileMaker Pro?), which worked well for me until 2008. I still have computers that can run it, but I hardly ever use them.

Are there databases integrated in some browsers, which could be used for this planned tuba register?

There should be several categories for each tuba, among these availability in used and new conditions in various markets.

As for the large number of tuba models made, then very few are available to persons not going to conferences and big commercial shows. Wasn’t it Cheek and Chong that were asked which kind of fun stuff they preferred: “The available kind!”

Klaus

[sailn2ba]

Does sound like daunting task, but STILL would be useful. As to the program to be used, most DB apps can read and write *.dif or *.csv files for conversion to different database or spreadsheet programs.

[toeter]

@iiipopes: I have to admit that the idea of Brassreview.com is very close to what I want to make, but their database is very far from complete, and you can't create entries (brands) yourself, so it's probably gonna stay incomplete.

@KiltieTuba: the wiki should have a page for every model. I don't know if it's possible to add a section to those pages with 2nd hand instruments for sale now. Also, I see trouble with this feature in the Wiki format since whether or not a tuba is for sale is not info anyone can verify. Selling tubas also is not my main goal with the Wiki, spreading information is. I meant "all tubas there are for sale" in a more general meaning, not naming exact shops/prices etc...

@SteveMarcus: I know, that's the reason I started this topic, as you may read in the opening post.

@pierso20: Good plan to put the Database in TubeNet, but I'm not sure if the forum-format would be very convenient for this purpose.

@Alex C: The goal is to provide information. It is for every tubist himself to decide how he uses it. Besides, just having a list of all models available would be useful, and manufacturers themselves tend to be not too careful at this point. (Neither the B&S nor the Rudy Meinl website have a complete online list of the tubas they make, for example).
I don't really see the point in your "lots of choice = no choice" section. Are you suggesting the number of available f-tubas in any place should be limited to three? I don't think choosing a tuba compares well to choosing, say, breakfast cereals. Maybe it's more like buying a car: something expensive you want to have and use for years. There are hundreds of car models available, and people seem to do fine choosing a car.
The sound, response, intonation thing could be added in the Review section.

Just to be clear: I think tuba models should be the starting point for the wiki, not individual tubas for sale. I have already started a small wiki to be able to experiment a little, it is at http://tubadatabase.wikispaces.com" target="_blank" target="_blank. It would be great if some of you guys would want to help me develop the thing. I'm not a computer genius, and I don't know how to realise every idea I have, so if you want to give me a hand here... I think the first thing to do is create good templates for 1) brand pages 2) model pages.

[Tuba Guy]

It's good. A few things I noticed right off the bat (and if these are beyond your knowledge, don't worry about it, they are just things that I think would make the site easier in the long run)
When you click "brands" and it comes up with the list (at this point, Hirsbrunner and Miraphone), it doesn't seem to connect to the "F tuba/Eb tuba/CC tuba/BBb tuba" like when you click on the manufacturer's name on the left.
Also, how would you like us to enter instruments whose official model numbers we are not sure of? As far as I know, my Martin doesn't have a model, and my York is referred to as a "large Eb". That could get confusing. Also, if a manufacturer changes the model number designation with different years (can't think of any right now-i've been arranging for a few hours and my brain is mush), that should be enterable somehow (for example Conn 28J-1919 vs 28J-1936)

I like it

[T. J. Ricer]

Just FYI, and I'm not involved with it, but I think something is trying to get started at http://www.tubapedia.org

Certainly looks like it could use some contributions! May as well use a resource that's already in place...

---T. J.

[toeter]

Hi!

As I had some time to spare, I decided to see if this tuba-wiki plan would now attract some people who are willing to contribute.
There are no other instrument databases on the web right now that I know of and also there are no other initiatives to create one that I know of.
My idea is to gather facts. So bore size, bell diameter, height, weight, anything that can be measured. And photos. If this is relevant is for everyone to decide for him/herself. I think it is, for example to identify a tuba that you find somewhere on a flee market (including eBay). Also, it might prove that the bits of knowledge many people here apparently have, will build a sort of coherent picture of tuba manufacturing through the years.

Maybe a special section could be created for personal experience with the instruments, but right now that's not my goal, nor do I know how to create something like that in an orderly and readable way.

I think tubas should be listed under their official model number. If a manufacturer changed the way the instrument is built over the years, it should be mentiond in one article.

I think it would be a great start if Tubenetters just entered what they know (with certainty) about their own instruments. And please help create templates to enter info nicely. What I entered was just while fooling around and is in no way definitive.

I hope you guys will help! Check http://tubadatabase.wikispaces.com" target="_blank" target="_blank