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I visited a middle school today that just purchased four Eastman tubas on a 'close-out' deal. They appeared to be copies of the Yamaha YBB-321 tubas. I found Eastman Winds on the web but they don't appear to be in the tuba business. Only trombones. Anyone know anything about these tubas?

They are horrible. They have the standard chinese valve issues, chunks of solder inside the horn, leaks, out of tune, you name it, this horn has got it.

I have played about 10 of these bad boys and just when i think i can't find one worse... i do. They are THAT BAD.

At least the 321, when played well, can produce a significantly pleasing sound to the ear, even if they are both beginner horns.

Eastman is the Chinese spinoff of the trumpet/trombone manufacturer Shires.

Biggs wrote:Eastman is the Chinese spinoff of the trumpet/trombone manufacturer Shires.

WRONG.

Eastman Winds is a division of Eastman Musical Instruments, which began manufacturing instruments under the brand name "Eastman Strings" in 1973. The Eastman Winds brass factory began producing French Horns in early 1996: less than 6 months after Steve set up shop (1995).

Eastman Musical Instruments approached Steven Shires in 2004 to develop its Andreas Eastman line of beginner trombones and its Eastman by Shires line of intermediate trombones. See this post by Gabe Langfur, dir. of sales for S. E. Shires, on TromboneForum.org, or Gabe's posts in this thread on OpenHorn.com.

djwesp wrote:They are horrible. They have the standard chinese valve issues, chunks of solder inside the horn, leaks, out of tune, you name it, this horn has got it.

I have played about 10 of these bad boys and just when i think i can't find one worse... i do. They are THAT BAD.

At least the 321, when played well, can produce a significantly pleasing sound to the ear, even if they are both beginner horns.

You must've played a bad batch. The very first one I played last summer was something of a dud. Its scale was poor, and it was out of tune with itself. Eastman sent the horn to Steve Shires, and he and his crew made some adjustments to the design and manufacturing process, and major improvements in construction and intonation were achieved.
Since that time, I've found the horns to play pretty similarly to the 321. The smaller Eastman is a great rendition of the 105.
The Eastman tubas are made in a factory in mainland China purchased from a large instrument manufacturer using tooling that came in the purchase of said factory. As part of the purchase, Eastman was not permitted to disclose from whom the factory was purchased, because the prior owner of said factory and tooling did not wish to let its customers know that it was making these horns in mainland China.
Eastman sousaphones were played by the Olympic marching band in Bejing last summer.

pgym wrote: Eastman Winds is a division of Eastman Musical Instruments, which began manufacturing instruments under the brand name "Eastman Strings" in 1973. The Eastman Winds brass factory began producing French Horns in early 1996: less than 6 months after Steve set up shop (1995).

Eastman Musical Instruments approached Steven Shires in 2004 to develop its Andreas Eastman line of beginner trombones and its Eastman by Shires line of intermediate trombones. See this post by Gabe Langfur, dir. of sales for S. E. Shires, on TromboneForum.org, or Gabe's posts in this thread on OpenHorn.com.

RIGHT.

Relax, brother. My WRONG response was just an attempt to summarize all those details in one hastily-slapped together sentence at the end of a long, hot day of work typed with a salami sandwich in one hand and without really caring about the results. Anyone who thinks I'm an EXPERT should REMEMBER that I'm just a twentysomething GUY living in a rented ROOM in the middle of NOWHERE. Is this all right by you, PAL?

Biggs wrote: RIGHT.

Relax, brother. My WRONG response was just an attempt to summarize all those details in one hastily-slapped together sentence at the end of a long, hot day of work typed with a salami sandwich in one hand and without really caring about the results. Anyone who thinks I'm an EXPERT should REMEMBER that I'm just a twentysomething GUY living in a rented ROOM in the middle of NOWHERE. Is this all right by you, PAL?

Your "hastily-slapped together sentence" didn't summarize anything. Claiming that Eastman is a spin off of Shires implies that they've stolen or copied something from Shires. Eastman and Shires have decided to work together to design and build some instruments. You don't have to be an EXPERT or over "twenty-something" to get your facts straight before posting.

Anyway, Eastman makes a wide range of horns. Some for Shires and others not. I'm not sure but I don't think their tubas (or at least not the tuba in question) is made for Shires. I noticed one a while ago at one of the schools near here. It looked just like the older (1990s?) YBB321s but looked brand new. Upon closer inspection I realized it was an Eastman. I didn't play it but I was very impressed with the build quality.

Mike-ICR wrote:

Biggs wrote: RIGHT.

Relax, brother. My WRONG response was just an attempt to summarize all those details in one hastily-slapped together sentence at the end of a long, hot day of work typed with a salami sandwich in one hand and without really caring about the results. Anyone who thinks I'm an EXPERT should REMEMBER that I'm just a twentysomething GUY living in a rented ROOM in the middle of NOWHERE. Is this all right by you, PAL?

Your "hastily-slapped together sentence" didn't summarize anything. Claiming that Eastman is a spin off of Shires implies that they've stolen or copied something from Shires. Eastman and Shires have decided to work together to design and build some instruments. You don't have to be an EXPERT or over "twenty-something" to get your facts straight before posting.

+1

Mike-ICR wrote:

Biggs wrote: RIGHT.

Relax, brother. My WRONG response was just an attempt to summarize all those details in one hastily-slapped together sentence at the end of a long, hot day of work typed with a salami sandwich in one hand and without really caring about the results. Anyone who thinks I'm an EXPERT should REMEMBER that I'm just a twentysomething GUY living in a rented ROOM in the middle of NOWHERE. Is this all right by you, PAL?

Your "hastily-slapped together sentence" didn't summarize anything. Claiming that Eastman is a spin off of Shires implies that they've stolen or copied something from Shires. Eastman and Shires have decided to work together to design and build some instruments. You don't have to be an EXPERT or over "twenty-something" to get your facts straight before posting.

Anyway, Eastman makes a wide range of horns. Some for Shires and others not. I'm not sure but I don't think their tubas (or at least not the tuba in question) is made for Shires. I noticed one a while ago at one of the schools near here. It looked just like the older (1990s?) YBB321s but looked brand new. Upon closer inspection I realized it was an Eastman. I didn't play it but I was very impressed with the build quality.

I'll readily admit that I was wrong, if that's what you'd like to hear. I posted incorrect and misleading information (goodness, what is the internet coming to!) and regret that my error may have misinformed someone at some point about something.

My second post arose when I thought Pgym came on a little strong in his correction, so I figured I'd parody his aggressive style with a brief, self-deprecating paragraph. Obviously, now that the parody of the correction of the misinformation is subject to a lecture, I can discern that my rhetorical flourish, like those of the wise Latinas before me, has failed.

Of all the tubas that they could have copied, WHY pick that one?
Augghh!

Art Hovey wrote:Of all the tubas that they could have copied, WHY pick that one?
Augghh!

Because it was YAMAHA's mainland Chinese factory that Eastman bought . . . complete with YBB-321 tooling!! If there was a market to do so, perhaps they will team up with another tuba manufacturer (like they did with Shires on the trombones) and build a better model?

Although I have not seen an Eastman tuba I can say without hesitation that all of their instruments are not made by them. The trumpets are Jupiter. I service at least 5 of them a day along with about 10 Jupiters and will bet the house that they came from the same place. If not they are stunning copies and I am living out of my car. The TRUMPETS have held up very well through quite a few rental seasons.

The trombones that I see are of FAR, FAR less quality, making me think (knee jerk) Chinese. Horns are in the same boat - SS Crap.

.

are there any chinese tubas that are comparable to miraphone 191in playability and quality? I read posts that yes and no. does anyone know for sureeeeeeeeeeeeeee! thanks

My day job keeps me pretty on-top of these things. I head the band and orchestra dept. at a prominent music store here in the Greater Toronto Area. Eastman is owned by a professional flautist (who also bought Haynes - their Amadeus line as well as some of their higher level flutes are made in the same factory as the instruments below).

Anyway, the Eastman line was something that we absolutely did not want to carry.... until we got a shipment of these instruments to try. First of all, the trombones blew us away! Shires designed them and Shires TRAINED the factory workers too! He went over there and showed them how to make the horns to his specs. The tubas, euphs and baritones are all EXACT duplicates of the Yamaha line (but with more convenient pull rings and red brass leadpipes!). I even took tuning slides from a 321 and switched them with all will its Eastman counterpart. Perfect fit! As for the trumpets - they are to Jupiter as the low brass is to Yamaha.

We did NOT want to like these horns. I've talked in-depth with our brass techs and they like 'em too! I've invited some of my pro trombone playing friends and I didn't tell them what horns they were trying. The rose brass tenor (w/ F) of the "Eastman by Shires" line got better reviews by pro players than several of the top end pro tenors from the top 3 manufacturers (You know who they are.). I like these instruments myself and I've suggested them to students of my own, friends, colleagues AND customers with a clean conscience.

A great option for players looking for their first instrument or even doublers who don't want to break the bank while still having an instrument that will do what you need it to do.

dentaltuba wrote:are there any chinese tubas that are comparable to miraphone 191in playability and quality? I read posts that yes and no. does anyone know for sure

No, that's something you can't know for sure. Quality has a lot to do with consistency - read this thread for more on that - and consistency is pretty near impossible to evaluate. You can play 10 Chinese sousaphones in a row and find fault with them, and have played German tubas for 40 years and found them utterly reliable, but now someone who used to run that German factory very well is getting old and sick, and for a few years they ship some lemons. Meanwhile, someone can go to the Chinese factory and get things under control and their story changes, and because standing next to the North Koreans they look very responsible and tolerant, they're everyone's favorite despotic thug nation.

I don't have any experience with the tubas, but Eastman trombones are very, very good instruments. I have played several of them, and in fact just recommended one to one of my incoming freshman OVER a Bach or a Conn. I was turned on to them by a friend in Atlanta who is a Shires rep, I played an Eastman next to his Shires and a Bach. The Shires was first, but the Eastman was a close second. I did play my student's new Eastman last night next to my new Conn 88h, and it blows the Conn straight out of the water, not even close. Bigger sound, richer colors, better high range and more open.

Cameron Gates wrote:Although I have not seen an Eastman tuba I can say without hesitation that all of their instruments are not made by them. The trumpets are Jupiter. I service at least 5 of them a day along with about 10 Jupiters and will bet the house that they came from the same place. If not they are stunning copies and I am living out of my car. The TRUMPETS have held up very well through quite a few rental seasons.

Eastman owns all of its own factories. The reason that the trumpets look like Jupiter is because the brass factory in China is managed by a guy names Yung Fan, who, in his last position, was in charge of trumpets at Jupiter. He designed the line of Jupiter trumpets, and, Eastman's trumpets.

The Eastman flutes, trumpets, horns, and trombones have supplanted Gemeinhardt and Conn-Selmer as the primary instruments in our rental "fleet." Our customers are extremely happy with the quality and the price.

I'll have my attorney contact you tomorrow so that we can arrange the transfer of the deed on your house to me.

dentaltuba wrote:are there any chinese tubas that are comparable to miraphone 191in playability and quality? I read posts that yes and no. does anyone know for sure

According to Eastman's head of product development (or, at least what he told me when he spent the day with me last month), the next three "new" brass instruments in their pipeline are a double rotor bass trombone, a piccolo trumpet, and a 4 valve BBb rotary tuba modeled after the 191.

jacojdm wrote:

dentaltuba wrote:are there any chinese tubas that are comparable to miraphone 191in playability and quality? I read posts that yes and no. does anyone know for sure

According to Eastman's head of product development (or, at least what he told me when he spent the day with me last month), the next three "new" brass instruments in their pipeline are a double rotor bass trombone, a piccolo trumpet, and a 4 valve BBb rotary tuba modeled after the 191.

Woohoo! I told our rep that if Eastman came out with a bass bone, it'll be my next horn! I hadn't heard that! Thanks for the heads-up.