TubeNet

On every Hirsbrunner CC tuba I've played, the low 'A' (below the staff) has always been somewhat problamatic. On some of the brand new ones the low 'A' centers about as well as a low 'C' of most german rotary f's. However, on a few of the older ones, the problem is significantly less; making only a minor irritation. On the Yorkbrunners (I've tried two so far), it was 'almost' nonexsistant.

The problem is the same on both piston and rotary CC's, so I'm having difficulty understanding why this is chararacteristic of these horns and if anyone else has ever come across this. The rest of the horn (especially the piston ones) plays extremely well, so this is the only complaint with these horns.

By the way if anyone is selling a used Hirsbrunner CC (that has a good low 'A') I'm in the market...

Try just valve 3. Works for me, but every horn is different.

My Yorkbrunner playes that note solid and firm. It tends to be a little sharp, but I compensate with the first valve slide. I have tried two other Yorkbrunners including Gene Pokorny's and neither one played as well as mine, especially around that low A. Before they started machining parts, the horns all played differently. I would like to try one that was made recently. I wonder?

On my Yorkbrunner it's a tad high so I play it just 3rd valve but it is rock solid. On mine it's the low G that is a bit insecure, though manageable.

I think Roger makes a great observation. I grew up in Royal Oak, Michigan where Custom Music was located for many years. In fact, I attended a high school (before going off to Interlochen) that was just down the street from Custom's shop (then in a storefront called Meyer's Music). You can imagine that I spent many hours after school in their tuba house honking on all the newest arrivals. It was a really great opportunity (and the folks at Custom were very gracious to allow a high school student access to their stock on such a continual basis) to sample so many great horns because at that time, Custom had the exclusive US marketing rights to almost all of the major european manufacturers (Hirsbrunner, Rudy Meinl, Alexander, Cerveny, PT/B&S, Kurath, etc.). I played many Hirsbrunner tubas during that time, spanning from before the introduction of the Yorkbrunner until well after. Just as Roger points out on his own horn, on nearly every Hirsbrunner tuba I tried the low G or Gb was an issue. When I say that, I mean every different model they made that I tried. What's totally bizarre about that is the fact that Hirsbrunner made some radical changes to their instruments over those years and the horns I sampled were often of widely divergent designs. Some piston, some rotary, some big, some small, quite a wide assortment of design concepts and configurations. Yet this same problem seemed to crop up in each horn. I never noticed any singular similarity between all those designs but there must be some common thread that binds all these different models. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about Hirsbrunner designs can illuminate what that might be. I've always been curious why their horns seem to have this issue because they play really well otherwise. Any thoughts?

Roger Lewis wrote:On my Yorkbrunner it's a tad high so I play it just 3rd valve but it is rock solid. On mine it's the low G that is a bit insecure, though manageable.

Ever try that low G 5-1-2?

Jay Bertolet wrote: <snippus grandus>
I've always been curious why their horns seem to have this issue because they play really well otherwise. Any thoughts?

My thoughts, based on a lot of horn-related discussion, is that either the leadpipe or the bell is suspect. I know one local guy who had a different bell put on his MW 46 F tuba because he didn't want to deal with the low C issues, and it improved it quite a bit. On my own French horn, I put a Lawson bell on it because of sound improvement, but it also outstandingly improved the lock-in characteristics of notes all over the instrument.

So if they keep using the same leadpipe....it might be tapered in such a way as to keep this problem going. Try the Lawson french horn website for some really interesting theory about leadpipes. Lots of players put Lawson pipes on all kinds of horns, with outstanding results.

http://www.lawsonhorns.com/leadpipes.htm
And I'm sure somewhere on the site they have more about leadpipes.

MA

In Answer to Sean's question above, yes the low G is more solid with the 5,1,2 fingering but still requiring a bit of caution if the dynamic is FF or greater. The Nirschl York that I played in Budapest was very nice, but the "bad" note had moved down to G flat instead. The Yama York was the only one of these horns that did not have any "bad" notes on it but I was not comfortable with the sound. Now the 5/4 model Yamaha - WOW! But Yamaha says $20,000 and they are backordered 3 YEARS on this one, if they even decide to go forward on it.

Thanks for the input.

TubeNet wrote: Ever try that low G 5-1-2?

That's my standard fingering for the G on my Hirsbrunner-CC; with the advantage that the first valve slide can be manipulated for intonation adjustment. Seems more "settled" than simply 4th valve.

...

No problem 4th valve on my Yorkbrunner for that G. Especially with this new Bayamo mouthpiece I got from G&W. It's like they were made just for that horn. But I still think I was blessed and got a super good horn. I've felt those difficulties on other Yorbrunners.

The problems with low A, Ab and G are common among many players on the Hirsbrunner CC tuba. The reason for this is because those notes require a different kind of air than what other more German and Japanese horns would require. I find if you slow the air down those notes play great. For instance, when playing the A, think of using the air you would normally use for the lower F. Ab, think E and so on. The same tactic can be employed for the low C on German rotary F tubas with great success.

If the problem is consistent among Hirsbrunners as Jay points out, at least we know Hirsbrunner is making a consistent product.

For the record, I play:
Hirsbrunner HB-50
Hirsbrunner HB-2P
B&S Perantucci-9 F Tuba