TubeNet

I know you're a professional and one of the most knowledgable people on here. But being that it's a school instrument, did you check that there isn't something stuck in there that some idiot kid may have put in? That could probably put it in B...

Eh, once in a while, stuff in the horn seems to make it play better. I've mentioned it before, but I had to take a sight singing test (on tuba) with my fraternity paddle in the bottom bow. I would have liked to have left it in the room, but one of the testers was a bro and I had to keep it with me so he wouldn't steal it (he had already done that to someone). In the end, my horn played more easily for some reason. I'm not suggesting that was the only reason, but it just seemed strange that it worked that well.
BTW, on the besson, if it was a leak, could that raise the pitch that much? And what about sticking a tuning bit in?
And I would *want* to build one...but that's why I don't do repairs for profit. I'd just have too much fun making random parts and making strange instruments

I did the same thing about 25 years ago playing in a pit band for "Cabaret". I used to rest my Besson Eb on a 4X4X4 child's wooden block wrapped by quilting sewn on by my child bride. (My quintet mates called it my "tuba block"). Anyhow, I couldn't find it before the show and played the whole show with that stupid thing wedged in the throat. As in your case it didn't affect the intonation much, but everything else was very interesting.

One studio-mate of mine in college owned a nice 4 rotary CC Bohm & Meinl tuba. He had it for a couple years. Anyhow, he decided to take it out in his back yard to clean it and hose it down. He let the water fly through the tubing. Out popped a leather Reunion Blues mouthpiece pouch he had been missing. If I remember correctly he could tell by the chew marks that his dog must have put it in the horn.

I found a giant wooden door wedge, part of someone's lunch, a mouthpiece and a bunch of loose change in a sousaphone my freshman year of high school. Until I came along, it was years since they had a serious tuba player.

Is the Besson 1000 the model made in India?

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:Is the Besson 1000 the model made in India?

Klaus

As far as I know, yes.

When I see "student series", I see a big red sign flashing "RUN AWAY".

Wim

bloke wrote: Workmanship isn't terrible. Only the

(--------------)
- intonation
- overall length of the instrument (c. 9" too short), and
- sonority

are terrible.

As if that wasn’t enough of a black eye in the face of a student wanting to progress:



K

These used to be made in the UK. A brass band I used to play with had one for the 'training band' to be small enough for a kid. I can't say I ever played it to see what it was like (mind you, I thought the 'Professional' 994 sounded like I was playing into a bucket anyway! ).

One thought. These were probably made for small mouthpiece, so would putting in one of those help???

Neptune wrote:One thought. These were probably made for small mouthpiece, so would putting in one of those help???

My BBb comp has the smaller receiver also. Occasionally I do use a "regular" mouthpiece on it besides my Wick 1, say my Kelly 18 for when I'm playing outdoors for a Salvation Army kettle, or another one or two. Even though it inserts less than a half inch, It makes very little difference to intonation, tonality or feel overall. Slightly noticable, yes, but not as much as bloke describes.

imperialbari wrote:

bloke wrote: Workmanship isn't terrible. Only the

(--------------)
- intonation
- overall length of the instrument (c. 9" too short), and
- sonority

are terrible.

As if that wasn’t enough of a black eye in the face of a student wanting to progress:

I hope bloke's creative fix helps a little bit. Only potential problem is that now there are two crooks to fill with water and only one of them has a water key. (Probably the least of the kid's problems..)

bloke wrote: ...no better in tune with itself, and (with the smaller mouthpiece) the tuba (of course) played even closer to a B-natural tuba.

Well, if you hadn't made the slide already, I would have suggested writing up a fingering chart for tuba in B. Give that to a beginner, they won't know what they're missing.

The implication of at least bloke’s last posting is that this Besson 1000 has the old English receiver.

This puzzless me, as Besson otherwise abandoned this old narrow receiver for tubas after circa 1982. My understanding was that the 1000-series was a recent one named after Besson, whomever it might be right now, started production in India, which happened after 2000.

Klaus

bloke wrote:The receiver follows the same theme as the intonation...It's roughly halfway between an "American" and an "English" style receiver.

This explains why you could use a small shank mpc without it bottoming out. But I see absolutely no reason why a low end model should attempt to introduce yeat another size of tuba mpc receiver. Only may an attempt to make the receiver dual purpose for small and large mouthpiece shanks.

Klaus

bloke wrote:I tried it briefly with an old King #24 (which was a "true" Eb tuba mouthpiece - "English"/bass trombone-size shank as well)...

What would you consider to be the main characteristics of a "true" Eb tuba mouthpiece? Just curious.

Nice work on the slide!

bloke wrote:

imperialbari wrote:The implication of at least bloke’s last posting is that this Besson 1000 has the old English receiver.

This puzzless me, as Besson otherwise abandoned this old narrow receiver for tubas after circa 1982. My understanding was that the 1000-series was a recent one named after Besson, whomever it might be right now, started production in India, which happened after 2000.

Klaus

The receiver follows the same theme as the intonation...It's roughly halfway between an "American" and an "English" style receiver.

Oh, well then -- Mike Finn did a run of MF4 mouthpieces with a .500 tip shank. One of those should work really well then!

iiipopes wrote:
Oh, well then -- Mike Finn did a run of MF4 mouthpieces with a .500 tip shank. One of those should work really well then!

After reading Bloke's description of the tuba in question, I would change "work really well" to "FIT really well".

I do have a couple of these left if anyone is interested. Not as small as the "true Eb" mouthpiece that Bloke refers to (a la Conn Giant) but a shallow tuba cup/rim with a bass trombone shank on it, good for those English tubas or medium-large old American tubas with small receivers.

I have a 1961 Besson catalogue that lists a "Stratford" tuba, model 588 with a (more or less) 13 inch bell and 590 with a 15 inch bell-bore for both is listed at .689. The instrument pictured is a dead ringer for the "1000" photo on your post, (aside from the pull ring on the 2nd valve slide of the 1000). I'm pretty sure that I played one of these when I did my student teaching. I don't recall the specific pitch problem that you mention but it was a pretty bad horn! Never played it with a group so I'm not sure if it was also a "B" tuba.

All British tubas up to the 19" era brought into serial production on the 3+1P compensating Eb and BBb tubas (marked Besson or Besson Imperial until the Sovereigns came up around 4 years later in 1982) had bells with very little flare. Some called that bore profile exponential.

The Indian 1000 series may have the same valve section wrap as the old student models made in the UK, but the bell shown has much more flare.



When I was the director of a very poor youth band we were happy to loan one of the tiny Eb Besson Westminster’s. It was considered hopelessly out of tune. I very soon found out that the design of the 3rd slide was not about having the correct length of tubing, but about making it possible to stuuf the instrument into a case. When we pulled that 3rd slide well beyond the safery provided by the main frame, it was as reasonable as may be expected from a 3 valve instrument.

Once and only once I saw that little Eb model for sale in a 3+1p non-compensating version. Regretably I didn’t buy it.

Klaus

I have an Eb mouthpiece in my (gasp) Eb right now. It's a hereco, and the shank is way too small (I guess my horn has an american size reciever?), so it's been wrapped with tape ever since I got it. It's always responded great, and sounds awesome (4 octave range, 3 octave usable, can nail bydlo and the high Bb in Symphonie Fantastique). Occasionally it's a little annoying having to be careful of the tape, but it works.