TubeNet

Interesting VW Concerto post

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... cle?chn=us" target="_blank" target="_blank

Sent to me by Herb Wekselblatt

Jim Self

I think we should start using the term "Tubamen" again.

I have the recording they made in the studio the following day. I think the author of the article got it just about right.

Rick "thinking it was a survival exercise for the premiere performer" Denney

Makes one wonder if standards have really improved that much in the last half century that some college students and amateurs today are better players than was the 'tubaman' of a leading symphony orchestra then?

Neptune wrote:Makes one wonder if standards have really improved that much in the last half century that some college students and amateurs today are better players than was the 'tubaman' of a leading symphony orchestra then?

I was just thinking about that, this morning (after reading the article).

I think it boils down to Mr. Catelinet being the first person to play the danged thing, and not having a single role model to help him prepare his concept of the piece. Not only was he premiering a new solo work, but in some ways, he was premiering a new solo concerto instrument! What ever he did, he would be setting a new standard! Even Bill Bell, a man of inestimable solo abilities, did a 1957 performance with the Little Orchestra Society of New York, that was a little bumpy.

Much later (in the 1970's?) John Fletcher set an enduring new standard with his landmark recording of the work, with Andre Previn conducting.

But isn't that how knowledge progresses? Today's inventive thinking stands on the shoulders of yesterday's discoveries.

In response to the question of how quickly, and dramatically the standards have changed, I think that the potential abilities were always there, but the residents of tubadom just needed someone to show them the way!

It wouldn't be the first piece to have a bumpy start, numerous examples from all the great composers will be found in the history books, and the pieces and the reputations of the composers remains intact despite the performances.
As a boy I was taught euphonium by the man who sat next to Philip Catelinet and played bass trombone in that orchestra (a man called Kenneth Britten), but at the time had no real interest in the tuba (it really developed later on).

Rick Denney wrote:I have the recording they made in the studio the following day. I think the author of the article got it just about right.

Rick "thinking it was a survival exercise for the premiere performer" Denney

I find that recording fascinating. He came over from the Euphonium, and played in a style unfamiliar to all of us, but I feel he did yeoman service to bringing Tuba to the fore, and for birthing a concept considered much more acceptable now - the solo tubist.

Bravo to him, his premiere, and his playing. We can learn many things from that recording - he worked directly with VW - not many of us can claim that!

J.c.S.

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:Even Bill Bell, a man of inestimable solo abilities, did a 1957 performance with the Little Orchestra Society of New York, that was a little bumpy.

It was technically bumpy but it was not conceptually bumpy. The story it told wasn't the same story as the one told by Fletcher (or Lind), but it told a story nonetheless, aspects of which included a light playfulness and sense of humor. Catelinet's recording told only a story of survival, and I don't think that was the story he intended, even if he pondered it in those terms.

We can excuse Catelinet's performance on technical grounds for a whole variety of reasons, and maybe he was so consumed by the technical challenges that much communication on a deeper level was just not possible. I still wonder if he undertook to think about what he might say, rather than merely learning the notes.

I do not attain to the standard I'm expressing, but then I'm not a tuba player for a world-class symphony orchestra, either. Those were different times, to be sure.

I have a recording of one of the major London orchestras performing RVW's 4th symphony, with RVW conducting, in 1937. That work also demonstrated noticeable technical flaws compared to later recordings. That might also have been a sheer technical limitation based on the difficulty of that work (by any standard) and the state of orchestra music in the UK at the time. But the power of the work came through nevertheless.

Rick "wondering if orchestra musicians in those days had a more working-class self-image" Denney

My two teachers did the VW early on. I believe Harvey Phillips did it in New York shortly after it was written--don't know the details. Tommy Johnson did it with the Pasadena Symphony in 1958--west coast premier. I believe he played it on a BBb tuba.

Jim Self

jimself wrote:Tommy Johnson did it with the Pasadena Symphony in 1958--west coast premier. I believe he played it on a BBb tuba.

Too bad that was not recorded for posterity. I can bet that TJ did not have any trouble telling a story worth hearing.

Rick "maybe that recording would be everyone's archetype now" Denney