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I own a 1924 era Conn helicon (Bb 3-v). Cosmeticaly it is in good shape, but... the valves are very loose and the top valve caps scrape against each other when they are unscrewed.

What's the possibility that valves and caps from a Conn 26k or 14k sousaphone would work with this horn?

According to my memory Conn had settled on their current wrap by 1924 but for the 1st valve top bow being non-moveable back then.

The 26K has a 0.689" bore (mine actually is 0.691"). The 14K has the most common Conn BBb bore of around 0.730". Pistons are said to be of the same dimensions in the 26K and 14K.

Even if 14K pistons formally would fit your helicon, I am not entirely convinced your suggested solution for piston and cap wear is ideal, because a lot of the wear is inside the piston casing and in the top threading of the casing. A reworking/replating of the valve block would give better results. Others will be able to tell you about the costs of such project.

I bought my 26K in the summer of 1990 to have a warm-up instrument for my bassbone playing. That 26K was like a lot of other brasses and saxes taken in by a travelling brass salesman servicing American schools. He stuffed a container with them and sent them to Europe, where shops in various countries bought them to have projects for repairmen to do during low seasons. Mine doesn’t look like there was worked much on it.

Yet its valves are remarkably tight. When practicing harder, than I do now, I would warm up clad in a velour bathrobe while following the morning news on TV. Mornings aren’t always my favourites, so memory would sometimes fail and I often would slide a bit down in the chair.

From time to time the valves would stick, which made me go bananas. I did the big cleaning of pistons and casings only to see my white rags not going dirty. The reason for the sticking was me almost lying in the chair and the bathrobe sealing the bottom vents of the piston casings. When I moved my behind a bit back in the seat, the valves worked all fine.

The pistons are brown and you can see plier marks on them. Yet it is this sousaphone that pro players have loaned to do pit and concert work. And they wanted to buy it from me.

Klaus

I have the use of a 1930 Conn 38K souzy. My caps and valves are also worn. Don't worry about the caps scraping anything. Also, don't worry about worn valves. Use either Hetmans "classic" (thick) valve oil or do what I do: add a drop or two of pharmacy grade mineral oil to a conventional 1-oz bottle of valve oil. Add just enough to help the oil make the "seal" between the valve and the casing, but not so much the higher viscosity of the mineral oil slows down the valves.

If the valves are so worn that they just will not hold intonation, you are better off having them rebuilt rather than replaced in order to keep the value and the integrity of the instrument intact.

The valves are originals as they are stamped with the horns serial number. There must have been some damage sometime back because valve 1&3 operate smoothly, but #2 barely will move. The valve cap scraping must be attributed to this damage. Sounds like a valve job will be in order. Is there any truth to the vicious rumors that valve jobs are $125-150 per valve?

Thanks for everyone help and information.

John... have you tried swapping one of the other pistons into the #2 casing? That could tell you quickly if you are dealing with a damaged #2 casing or have a bent valve.

I can't think of any reason why your caps would scrape together other than that they are not the original ones. It's not unusual for the threads on top of the casings to get deformed inward causing the pistons to bind when trying to take them out. This condition also can cause the threads in the caps to not engage correctly.

The cost you've been quote for valvework is not far off base but you'll need to include a charge to remove the valve section and put it back on after mailing the valveset to and from someone who does piston work. Most shops don't do their own piston work.

You need to get your horn to a good brass repairman. You may have some simple things to fix without going into a valve job.