Opinions on YEB-321?

[UTSAtuba]

I know there has been some discussion on this horn (Yamaha YEB-321 EEb Tuba), but I was wondering if there are any "updated" opinions on the horn. Thanks!

Joseph

[Blake Dowling]

I really liked mine, I just didn't like upright valves. They have a lovely singing tone and with a little bit of work you can get a decent low register out of them.

[Mike-ICR]

I had one a year or two ago and it was a great horn. In tune, reliable and relatively easy to play. The sound seemed a little one dimensional and a little too contrabass-ish for me. It would make a good "do-it-all" horn if you don't mind the upright valves (I found the upright in-line 4 a little awkward).

[Dan Schultz]

I think BOTH the YEB and the YBB 321 tubas are quite good from the point of view of intonation, reliability, and parts availability. They make very good school horns. I just can't get along with the top-action valves.

[T. J. Ricer]

I may be alone in this, but, for what it is worth, I think that this is one of, if not the best Eb tuba out there. I own the older YEB-381 (dependent five-valve version) and it is quite a bit easier to play in tune than many of the "professional model" Eb tubas I have tried to like better. . . I have also jumped from F tuba to F tuba trying to find something that sounded as good and played so consistently up and down the horn. As has been said in the past, if Yamaha just made an Eb version of the 621 (front action) out of this horn, it would probably be a force in the market.

I use mine for nearly all of my brass quintet playing and a good chunk of soloing. I typically use an F for bass tuba in orchestra, but have taken in the Yamaha Eb a few times with no problems (but do make sure the trombones won't get upset at having the bell pointing at their heads!)

--T. J.

[oedipoes]

I think BOTH the YEB and the YBB 321 tubas are quite good from the point of view of intonation, reliability, and parts availability. They make very good school horns. I just can't get along with the top-action valves.

YBB 321 is ok. Not more:
- Intonation is good
- ergonomics are poor (top pistons don't work very well for my little finger), it's wrap also too wide
- its 420mm bell and the bore are on the small side of the spectrum, it breaks up easily when pushed. I can not support a band of 50 people alone with it.
- it's built like a tank, I march this horn (with a belt over the right shoulder) and it's too heavy. I could live with the weight of a 20K if the sound is accordingly, but this thing is too heavy for the sound I get from it outdoors...
-it rots away after 30 years, (red dots) but who cares if you can move on to something better.

Wim

[DonShirer]

The YEB321 was the first tuba I owned (with some pre-owned dents), but it had a smooth tone and quite good intonation. The top valves were fine with me since there is a convenient tube behind them to rest your palm on. I would say it would be a good choice for the intermediate amateur.

I recently bought a MW instrument which has a gutsier low register, but poorer intonation, but I kept the 321 around for quintet and travelling gigs.

[termite]

Hmmmm

I've spent a bit of time on a couple of older YBB321's and I found the intonation pretty much impossible. Notes played with the first or second valves alone were very flat while notes played with the first and second combination tended to be sharp! Also the fourth valve alone seemed to be a bit flat while the second and fourth combination was very sharp. I spent days at a time practicing with drones and piano accompaniment over a period of several months and never got the thing under control.

It seemed to have more sparkle than the British tubas it's based on but doesn't seem to play any bigger. I felt that the silver version sounded a tiny bit better than the lacquer version when I played them back to back.

This was a 321 dating from the late seventies - it may have even been one of the first made. Later versions may be much better. Also my wife has a YEB321 which she would have bought sometime around 1986. I had similar problems with this tuba's intonation.
The EEb sings nicely in the middle and high registers but I couldn't get much out of the low register; however I am a lousy EEb player and I've sat next to people who sounded much better on them.
The EEb is very easy to get a sound out of and has a nice sparkle to it. It would be a good tuba to learn on if later ones have better intonation.

The EEb seems to have more fans than the BBb.

Does anyone know whether the later ones have significantly better intonation than the early versions?

Regards

Gerard

[UTSAtuba]

Thanks for all the comments! It has helped me broaden my options

[Toobist]

I know of at least one pro who uses a 321 eefer as his bass tuba. I enjoy it as well and have even borrowed his on occasion for Bydlo before I got my first F a while back. It's definately a great quintet horn as well. I had a chance to try out one of the versions mentioned above with the dependent 5th valve. I wish I could go back and buy that horn! I always had horrible tuning when switching to E-flat but I used the horn on a gig the day I borrowed it and it was fantasic!

[termite]

Has anyone else had intonation problems with 321's - BBb or EEb or is it just me.
Is there a big difference between early and later models.

Regards

Gerard

[Lee Stofer]

As a matter of clarification -
Yamaha brasses, such as the YEB-321 and the YBB-321 were first marketed in the US in the 1970's. There were none in 1939, nor the 1950's. The original series low brass, for the most part, was discontinued in 1982 and the series "II" designation was introduced. There have been very minor changes in the tubing branch configurations, but most of the changes had to do with larger threads for the top- and bottom valve casings, new top- and bottom caps and finger buttons, and abandoning the old-Holton-style metal valve guides in favor of delrin valve guides, later updated with a steel insert to make them more durable.

I have repaired many of the YBB 321's, from very early models to virtually new instruments, and when completely repaired/restored, I think they are really quite good players. Based upon the traditional Besson design, the one curiosity that I have noted is that the bell is almost exactly the same size as that of an Alexander 163. The Besson, Yamaha, and Alexander bells measure so closely that they may even be interchangeable. I found it interesting that one poster said that he found the instrument had a tendency to 'break up' at higher volume levels. It is not a small instrument, and I have found that the instrument is able to produce a large volume of sound without losing its tonal character. I played a YBB 321 with a local brass band last Christmas, and really wanted to keep the instrument. Yes, I had tweaked it some, and I like to add water keys to the 1st, 3rd and 4th valve slides to make it more player-friendly, but it had not been modified in any significant way.

I have found the YEB321 to be perhaps a bit large-ish as an Eb, but not at all difficult to play. As with most other Eb and F tubas, a contrabass mouthpiece will result in poor intonation, but the right mouthpiece will make it sing, and even in-tune! Normally these instruments are not very expensive at all, making them an attractive option for Eb. There were a few YEB 381's made, which have a 5th rotor in the 4th valve tubing, making them a fully chromatic instrument. Though no longer made, they are quite fine Eb tubas if you can find one for sale.

I would also caution nay-saying an instrument across-the-board, based solely on the fact that your high school had one that may have had dents in just the wrong place, misaligned valves because the local repair tech decided to use "one-size-fits-all" valve felts/ rotor bumpers in the instrument, or may have had leaking ferrules because of a factory error, local technician error, or was leaking because of trauma to a ferrule or misaligned water key, or was being played with an inappropriate mouthpiece. There are very, very few inherently bad instruments out there, and I've come to find that Yamaha tubas are not amongst them.

[pwhitaker]

I used a YEB-321S for 5 years in the early 80's and a YEB-381S for about 5 years in the mid 90s for various gigs: Brass quintet, Dixieland, Pit Bands, large wind ensembles (military and community) and the occasional church solos. I found them to be a few cents sharp so I used a sousaphone tuning bit. This was probably due to my using very large contrabass mpcs. Apart from that, and the flat 5th partial F, F# and G on the top of the staff both horns were very playable and well received by my colleagues in the various ensembles. I went back to the large BBb's about 10 years ago because I prefer the easier fingering way below the stuff on those horns, and the slightly fuller timbre down there. If you like top action valves then the YEB-381S with the dependent 5th valve is a great all around horn and fun to play. The upper register is very secure on those horns.

[Jesse Brook]

I own one, and though I've had it for about 12 years, it shows no signs of red rot. This despite a very infrequent washing cycle (my fault). It plays nicely, too, despite many dents, some menacing the valves (also my fault). I wouldn't say that it breaks up, though I find when I switch to other tubas that my little YEB-321 does need quite a bit of adjustment of the embouchre when things get high. I don't have the kind of money (and never did) to get slide stops and triggers put on the third and first slides. As to breaking up when played loudly, I would say only if the player uses too much air too fast. I've supported orchestras, just not below the A or the G. By the time the "pull or die" F comes along, confident players on BB-flat tubas will be handily outdoing your best efforts. Pedals sing, high notes don't, but aren't hard to get, and the tuba itself is very durable. Mine is one of the first run, which developed plating problems on the valves a few years ago. A new set of valves, and it's a new tuba. I am working on it right now, to fix an odd factory leadpipe.

Proud owner of YEB-321 serial 000636, a fine jazz tuba, and my sole instrument for 11 years.

[oedipoes]

I have repaired many of the YBB 321's, from very early models to virtually new instruments, and when completely repaired/restored, I think they are really quite good players. Based upon the traditional Besson design, the one curiosity that I have noted is that the bell is almost exactly the same size as that of an Alexander 163. The Besson, Yamaha, and Alexander bells measure so closely that they may even be interchangeable. I found it interesting that one poster said that he found the instrument had a tendency to 'break up' at higher volume levels. It is not a small instrument, and I have found that the instrument is able to produce a large volume of sound without losing its tonal character.

I should maybe specify further, break up is maybe not the correct word.
At higher volumes on low notes, the Yama has a tendency to 'bark' like in 'bass-trombone'-bark.
Some people would be happy with that, but I don't like the character of that sound.
I don't know if the age, dents, bumps, leaks of this instrument have to do with that...
I would like a BBb tuba to have the same kind of fundamental warm sound, even at high volumes and in the lower register.

About the 163-like bell, doesn't the yamaha have a bell that is a lot thicker metal than the Alex?

Wim

[UTSAtuba]

Just small fact, but on the Yamaha website it says that the YEB-321S has been in production since 1978 Has it really been in production for that long? (not really trying to doubt Yamaha )

Joseph

[J.c. Sherman]

The YEB-321 is an exceptional tuba; my prime instrument is Eb and these are absolutely wonderful instruments. The pitch is exceptional and the sound is big for an Eb. It’ll blow a MW or a Wilson off the stage. They are fantastic all-around instruments!

Playing wise and sound wise, it's pretty close to identical with my Boosey & Hawked Imperial Eb. I have a YEB-321 receiver on my Boosey, in fact – a perfect fit. Perhaps top valves aren't for everyone, but with the right mouthpiece (Yamaha Self, for me) and embouchure, you can get a he|| of a lot of sound out of these! A fellow student when I was at Oberlin bought one because he liked my Imperial, though he got the 381 with the 5th valve. Like the 5-valve version of the YEP-321 Euph, the 5th valve was discontinued because it drew away buyers from the "professional" instruments in the 6 series.

A colleague of mine - who's also an Eb player primarily - has a 321 with a Robb Stewart added 5th. I don't think he would ever let it go.

With little effort, much like the front valve Besson Ebs, Yamaha could change this into a front valve and clean up on the market. I'd be the first in line to get a socially acceptable Eb that plays like that! And if you want a LOT of sound from an Eb, the 600 series Eb is bloody huge!

J.c.S.

P.S. The Miraphone 184-CC bell is interchangeable with this model.

[UTSAtuba]

Again, thanks for all the info about the 321S. It has been very VERY useful.

A colleague of mine - who's also an Eb player primarily - has a 321 with a Robb Stewart added 5th. I don't think he would ever let it go.

J.c.S.

By any chance, do you have your colleague's contact info? If, most likely when, I find a 321S (unless I get lucky finding a 381) adding a 5th would be extremely desirable. Thanks again!

Joseph

[UTSAtuba]

Hey, if there is anyone in Texas (south TX would be even better) with a YEB-321 who would not mind me blowing a few notes(?), would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Joseph

[UTSAtuba]

Has anyone been able to compare the 321 with an older B&H Imperial 3+1? It looks like the 321 is *sort of* a copy of the Imperial, but obviously without compensating valves.

Joseph