Holton Short Action Valves

[Gongadin]

I have a Raincatcher sousaphone with Holton short action valves. There's a patent pending notice on the valve casings, just above the serial number. What years were these Holton valves in production? If their patent was pending, was Conn's granted before Holton's was?

[Alex C]

I think it would be really interesting if you could post pictures of the Holton short action piston. I've seen them and have even played a Holton tuba with short action valves but I bet most people have no idea what these things are like.

Sorry I don't have info but there are people on the board who can help.

[Tom]

http://thevillagetinker.com/Holton%20SA ... aphone.htm

[windshieldbug]

The idea of oval airflow and shortened action goes back to the Allen rotary valve of the 19th century.

[Dan Schultz]

Off the top of my head, I don't recall any patents actually being granted, the idea of "pinched" airflow and shortened action going back to the Allen rotary valve of the 19th century.

I can't get the patents to display correctly. Something about needing another plug-in (imagine that for a government website).

Anyway... my Holton short-action souzie lists two patents (not patent pending)... 1457623 and 1932742. Maybe someone can post the contents for all to view.

[windshieldbug]

[Dan Schultz]

Thanks, Bug! I've been trying to view those patent drawings for some time now. I must have something configured wrong in my browser.

[Alex C]

Dillon's has a Holton short action for sale. Here's a look at the horn and the valve, different than the drawing because it's a three banger.

[Dan Schultz]

Dillon's has a Holton short action for sale. .....

Naw. Now Dan.... snap out of it! You don't really need that!

[Mike-ICR]

I've always wondered why Holton didn't bend and install oval crooks into these pistons like in figure 5 above (I know that example has round ports). They obviously had the space for it. I think it would be a huge improvement and solve a lot of the issues associated with this system.

Is Conn still making their short action sets? I think it might be time to revisit the short action concept. With today's technology and materials it could be successful.

[Dan Schultz]

.... Is Conn still making their short action sets? I think it might be time to revisit the short action concept. With today's technology and materials it could be successful.

Yep. Conn still makes short action valvesets but only produces the smaller bore 20K sousas. The pistons will fit the casings of the old 2XJ tubas but the ports are not big enough.

[windshieldbug]

Has anybody here ever played these?

I own the cornet that I displayed earlier, so yes, I've played them...

[Dan Schultz]

As to Holton valves, I don't think the production costs would be much lower then the well proven Conn type valves, so unless the patent rites
are too high, I would think paying them would be worth it to give a new manufacturing concern an advantage.
I've bin interested in 19th century Allen valves for years but can't seem to find anybody who's ever played them!!
I read a thing about similar "D" shaped port rotor valves by Hirsbrunner that were never produced because their response was said to be "too sudden" (?)
Has anybody here ever played these? They sure seem like they'd bee a great solution for big bore tubas.

The only real drawback from conventional pistons on large bore horns is that the valve stroke gets longer. Valves that would have perfectly round bores without the 'humps' where the crossports are siamesed would have an even longer stroke.

Question... what might be wrong with just building pistons with large bores, round ports, and adequate seal surfaces and adding a lever to operate the piston that had a mechanical advantage to compensate for the longer stroke?

Or... how about using hydraulics to operate pistons like is used on some automotive clutch mechanisms. Driving a small cylinder with a larger one would allow for looooong strokes and the pistons could be mounted anywhere and plumbed with small tubing.

Ahhhh..... so many ideas and so little time. How about someone just paying me to sit around and mess with stuff?