TubeNet

There are several tubas on Ebay that are listed as 1/2 size. After doing some research I'm still puzzled by what these tubas may sound like and also by their physical dimensions. Does anyone own a 1/2 size tuba? What are they like?
-hald

I've only ever seen/played 3v top action EEbs. They almost never exceed 30" tall and usually have a bell under 15" across. The branches are very skinny when compared to a 3/4. I would guess that they weigh about 15lbs. I find they play quite well and sound quite large for such a small horn. Intonation is usually touchy but nothing too bad. They're popular candidates to be cut to F but I've always wanted to add a 4th valve to make a 1/2 size 3+1 EEb. Some use them as cimbasso replacements, for very small ensembles or for practice horns.

I would consider the old Yamaha YBB-103 student BBb tuba to be a 1/2 size tuba. These were great for starting elementary students or smaller junior high / middle school students. Looked like a tuba, sounded like a tuba, just smaller. .610" Bore, 14-3/8" Bell. Made between 1976-1992.

MartyNeilan wrote:I would consider the old Yamaha YBB-103 student BBb tuba to be a 1/2 size tuba.

I forgot about those! Yamaha made the YBB-102 before developing this model and I think both are very good examples. The branches of the 102 were skinnier than those found on the 103 but the general size is the same. Now Yamaha makes the YBB105. It's the same body as the 103 (and of all the other small Yamaha front action piston horns) but has 3 top action valves now.

MartyNeilan wrote:I would consider the old Yamaha YBB-103 student BBb tuba to be a 1/2 size tuba. These were great for starting elementary students or smaller junior high / middle school students. Looked like a tuba, sounded like a tuba, just smaller. .610" Bore, 14-3/8" Bell. Made between 1976-1992.

Browsed daBay last night and there are three up for auction right now. People here have said that the 103 is a good small horn for experienced people, too.

Rudi Meinl makes some 1/2 sized horns. I inquired about them and was told that they were considered strictly for beginning students who were too small to play larger horns and definitely not recommended for any other use.

Thanks. The size seems perfect for when I want to take a tuba with me on motorcycle trips.
-hald

My King 1200 Eb might be considered a 1/2 size tuba. It really plays great, though!

I've been messing around with where the main slide is. Once I got it set, the only off partial is the 5th and not a lot. Using a very small mouthpiece (30mm, somewhere between a bass trombone and American tuba shank, super shallow) it has a lovely bright sound, but can still crank. Low Eb to C are fine, and B-A are awesome. False tones suck with the small mp. They're better with a bigger one. Pitch seems a bit off with my Martin 32 and Bach 18, but I don't think that would be a problem after spending some time on one. High range is awesome and it's definitely big enough for a quintet.

I will be sticking with the small mp on this horn, as that was what I want out of a tuba like this (I use a PT48 on contrabass and a Bach 18 on bigger Eb's).

I used to have an old Lyon & Healy Conn stencil that was pretty nice, but this King is better.

Sorry no pictures of it with the 1st slide flipped. The tuba is 31" tall and has a 15" bell and a .620 bore. There was a clean one on eBay this spring as well as a little front action Conn Eb with the main slide before the valves. Those are said to be pretty good too. I've played an F tuba made out of a tiny York Eb that was awesome as well.

Man that picture is big (almost as big as the tuba!!)!!

I've got a YBB-103. It's not as beautiful as the one pictured above finish-wise but it is in pretty good shape otherwise.

It is a great little horn but must be treated like a little horn. It is pretty easy to overblow. I used it every night this summer at an outdoor theatre gig. With no walls or ceiling to bounce any sound back I was pushing it way too hard at first and getting a crappy sound. Once the soundman dialed in the monitors and I relaxed a bit, things got better fast. It has decent intonation for a 3-banger and a good (if not exciting) tone. The small size works great, both in the pit and in the back of my Prius. I don't even have to fold the backseat down.

I have also been taking it to rock and singer/songwriter gigs. I usually like to take my King Sousy but the portability of the Yammy seems to be more and more important as I get older.

Had that same "Kolada" King Eb for years, and also had two variants. Wonderful sounding with good pitch. Stuffy by modern standards, but a fine player nonetheless.

Aside from the current Ebay offerings, there are two small tubas that come to mind...

- The little Cuoesnon Eb tubas that inundated grade school bands back in the 50's and 60's. For small horns, these tubas played pretty darned good. I don't have one here at the moment but I recall the bell being about 13".

- The DEG BBb 'commuter' tuba. This one was made by Willson and came with two detachable bells... one brass and one plastic. The body fit in a case about the size of small suitecase or overnight bag. The kid kept the brass bell at school and the plastic one went home for practice. These pop up everyone once in a while on Ebay but are quite often lacking either of the bells.

That little Yamaha YBB-102 that has been discussed already has an incredible sound for such a small tuba.

I have a Besson Stratford that is a 1/2 size, it was clumsily converted to a marching horn.
Came from a estate sale in Iowa, purchased on the 'bay,
It hasn't been played in awhile.
I played with a tuba player from South Africa this summer,
he was playing a Bundy that was loaned to him for his bands US Tour,
it was definitely a 1/2 tuba as well.
I meant to get of picture of it next to my 5/4 Rudy, but forgot to.

The only DEG Commuter I ever tried was pretty "doggy," in all honesty. However, back in HS I did a summer music camp where one of the other tubists had an absolutely amazing little Besson - might have predated the "Stratford" designation, I can't remember for sure one way or another - but it was a honey of a horn for a little 3-banger. And several years ago I taught a couple of MS kids who were playing the little Yamahas, both of which were quite responsive and even-tempered little horns. I'd love to get one of those.

For a time Besson made a 1/2 size BBb, the model 2-20. I had one in L.A. in the 70's and early 80's. 3V, top action, small bell, and built really solidly. (Abe Brown in Newport Beach rehab'ed it for me in about 1978.) It was very handy for tuba/bass 'bone doubling gigs. The sound that horn put out was not lacking in either quality or volume. Wish I hadn't let it get away.....

I wonder why so many of these horns lack a 4th valve.
The short answer is not valid, I believe. Money can´t be the real reason. If You plan to introduce kids (EAGER and MUSICALLY TALENTED kids, that is) to serious tuba playing, why punish them with a horn that´ll be disappointing as soon as you get to the fun notes ?
The least I´d expect would be a convenient possibility to trigger up to 8 inches, so said kid will have a "workaround" solution to use until someone finds out they´re serious about playing.

tubeast wrote:I wonder why so many of these horns lack a 4th valve.
The short answer is not valid, I believe. Money can´t be the real reason. If You plan to introduce kids (EAGER and MUSICALLY TALENTED kids, that is) to serious tuba playing, why punish them with a horn that´ll be disappointing as soon as you get to the fun notes ?
The least I´d expect would be a convenient possibility to trigger up to 8 inches, so said kid will have a "workaround" solution to use until someone finds out they´re serious about playing.

Well, don't know how applicable this is but....

Looking at the newest Olds price list I can find (1978), their 099-4v tuba was $1650 and their 099-3 tuba was $1350. If a bandmaster was looking to buy tubas, she could *almost* get 5 3v tubas for the cost of 4 4v tubas! (4v x4 = 6600 3v x5 = 6750)

This might be more valid:

Looking at the 2009 WWBW catalog, a Kanstul CTU 902-4B (4v small BBb) goes for $5208 and the same horn in 3v goes for $3780. That difference is a lot of dough. (2 4v horns- $10416, 3 3v horns- $11250)

4v is good but the EAGER and MUSICALLY TALENTED kid would not be held back by having to use a 3v tuba. This student could either play the notes in tune or know enough to pull the 3rd valve slide out if she's going to play a lot down in the low register.

tubeast wrote:I wonder why so many of these horns lack a 4th valve. ....

Simply because more than three valves wasn't the 'norm' for grade and high schools when I was a kid. Heck! I started playing tuba in 1958 and I never saw a tuba with more than three valves until perhaps fifteen years later. The lack of more than three valves certainly didn't stop me from making pretty good music!

Just ask any high school kid what they think the fourth valve is for and they will likely respond with the wrong answer, anyway.

Q: What does the 4th valve on a tuba do?

A: Double the price!

(This humorous riddle stolen from our pal, Bloke, I believe)

TubaTinker wrote: Just ask any high school kid what they think the fourth valve is for and they will likely respond with the wrong answer, anyway.

You could ask the manufacturers the same question and get wrong answers as well. The 4th on my Olds O-99 was completely redundant as issued from Olds. It was obvious that they just stuck another valve on the horn as a sales gimmick. The 1-3 valve slide lengths were the same for the 3v and 4v horns so you were forced to use the same compromise intonation as a 3v. Thanks to a little of my money and a lot of bloke's time,

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I now have a 4v Olds O-99 that I can play in tune. The factory obviously didn't think intonation was important enough to make the mods before the horn was sold to some unsuspecting band director. Sure is a nice horn now though!

tubeast wrote:I wonder why so many of these horns lack a 4th valve.
The short answer is not valid, I believe. Money can´t be the real reason. If You plan to introduce kids (EAGER and MUSICALLY TALENTED kids, that is) to serious tuba playing, why punish them with a horn that´ll be disappointing as soon as you get to the fun notes ?
The least I´d expect would be a convenient possibility to trigger up to 8 inches, so said kid will have a "workaround" solution to use until someone finds out they´re serious about playing.

A forth valve on a tuba is no more necessary on a BBb tuba than a fourth valve on a Bb trumpet. I've played and recorded professionally on 3 valve BBbs (mostly Kings, but also Buescher). It was just fine, with a little slide pulling, just like a trumpet.

A fourth valve (or fifth of sixth) simpy offers options, though on a CC, it’s necessary to cover even the basic range required of a highschool student. Other tubas have “enough” valves for their purposes, or to provided intonation options.

Regrettably what has been mentioned is true – the average highschooler who has a 4th valve available either doesn’t use it or has no idea why they’re using it.

J.c.S.