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1-4 pull on both the Yamaha 621 and King 2341 BBb's - because it's "right there".

Normally, I see about 5 Eb's per year (well...*printed*, anyway - there are many places where it is clear to the tuba section that those Eb's just below the staff were accidentally engraved an octave too high...). This year, "Carmina Burana" has introduced me to the joy of many, many D's, a few parenthesized C's and an uncountable number of Enat's, for which I don't do a damned thing - no convenient 4, no pull to be had on 2, no push available on 1 - they all come in a big bunch, so I suppose I should think about pulling the main.

sloan wrote:Enat's, for which I don't do a damned thing - no convenient 4, no pull to be had on 2, no push available on 1.

Really? I had thought that (pulling 2) was the thing to do on these horns. I used 2 all the time on my old Eb to clean up 123. What's the issue- no ring or is the actual inner slide too short?
I never understood why front action piston valved horns have the 2nd slide ring facing the way it is.


I play low Eb 124 and no push on the school Mirafone becuase the first valve slide is painfully slow. On my unit's 187, I can pull either 1 or 4 for it played 14. I don't remember how far off it was, but 124 doesn't work too well.

4 and 5 on all three of my horns.
Yorkbrunner, Bruckner, and YFB-621.

I'm glad I don't have to live without a fifth valve.

Bob Kolada wrote:

sloan wrote:Enat's, for which I don't do a damned thing - no convenient 4, no pull to be had on 2, no push available on 1.

Really? I had thought that (pulling 2) was the thing to do on these horns. I used 2 all the time on my old Eb to clean up 123. What's the issue- no ring or is the actual inner slide too short?

Slide too short. It's just not worth the trouble.

I never understood why front action piston valved horns have the 2nd slide ring facing the way it is.


I play low Eb 124 and no push on the school Mirafone becuase the first valve slide is painfully slow. On my unit's 187, I can pull either 1 or 4 for it played 14. I don't remember how far off it was, but 124 doesn't work too well.

A slow slide is a problem. On a personal horn, it's easy enough to make it as fast as you need. For my needs (basic community band lit) and my horns (easy access to a *long* 1st slide) making that 1 slide a bit faster than all the others handles all my needs. If I really needed all the notes below F to be in perfect tune, I suppose I'd invest in a fifth valve, but for me that's overkill.

The heck with valve slides, I've gotten used to using chops & the main on all my contemporary horns.

4-5, on all horns. I did minimum pulling with that combo.

HOWEVER, since it seems that the question is more for a 4 valve horn, I'd probably say 14 (pull). Then again, it depends on valve placement and what that horns individual response to a slide pull entails.

After trying "false" pedals, 1+4 pull & 124 push, my 186 does best with 124 push, with a slight raise of the back of the tongue to accelerate the air a tad to bring it up to pitch. Then the next half step D is just about perfect with 234. Db is 134 pull 1, C is 1234 pull 1 a lot. B nat just isn't there, which may say more about me than the horn, and it takes a lot of warmup and coaxing in a large room to get pedal BBb. E nat and B nat 2+4 just has to be lipped in, as there is no room to pull 4, and 2 is, well, as we all know where it is, and I don't have trigger like some Rudy's and some custom jobs have.

It looks like I was the sole 1/4 pull both voter thusfar. On the 6450, the 5th valve slide is just a hair too long for my liking. F below the staff is a little flat, and forget about ever playing F# with 23&5! So, the best in tune F is a 1/4 combination with both slides pulled out about 2 1/2 inches.

However, the best sounding, and most open combination is 4/5. In licks where it goes by quickly, I can get away with a 4/5... particularly because E and below are in tune using the flat 5th valve. In tunes like Prok 5, or Romeo and Juliet, it's 1/4 with slides yanked accordingly. A 5th valve slide cut is soon in my future!

On my F tubas, it's a rock solid 4/5 with no slide pulling.

on my old Weltklang B&S Bb the low Eb is best with 1-2-4 and 4th valve slide pushed in. Slide for 4th valve is easy accesible. 1-4- and slides far out is also possible.

Gerd

1-2-4 push 1. This was also what I usually used on my Yamaha 621 F for the low Bb, despite the 5th valve. An added ring on the 1st slide made this work easily.
Last few CC's have been 5 valves, and I would have a hard time going back to a 4 banger, unless I met the right horn.

3+4? Hmm. Never thought of that. 3 is accessible, so it can be shoved fairly easily, as I usually have it pulled so 2+3 is in tune. I'll have to try that.

It really all depends on the context for me, but it's either 1-4 pull or 4-5 little lip.

JHardisk wrote:It looks like I was the sole 1/4 pull both voter thusfar. On the 6450, the 5th valve slide is just a hair too long for my liking. F below the staff is a little flat, and forget about ever playing F# with 23&5! So, the best in tune F is a 1/4 combination with both slides pulled out about 2 1/2 inches.

However, the best sounding, and most open combination is 4/5. In licks where it goes by quickly, I can get away with a 4/5... particularly because E and below are in tune using the flat 5th valve. In tunes like Prok 5, or Romeo and Juliet, it's 1/4 with slides yanked accordingly. A 5th valve slide cut is soon in my future!

On my F tubas, it's a rock solid 4/5 with no slide pulling.

If E and below are in tune, have you tried 513 for the F?

My 1932 King BBb has the 4th valve built as an E Natural, not an F, so the cellar notes are stellar! No pulling required. Just set 'em and forget 'em.
Low...
F: 1-3
E: 4
Eb: 2-4
D: 1-4
Db: 2-3-4 or 1-2-4 if you tend to be extra relaxed in that range and need to bring it up a smidge.
C:1-3-4
Cb/B nat: the fist, 1-2-3-4

Holton 345 BBb
Typical 4 valve combos going downward and pull as needed, similar to Mr. Hdisk

I´ll also use 4-5 rather than slide options to play those.
If You´re good enough to worry about this, You´re desperate enough to go out and find a decent used horn with five ore more valves.
Besides, how do I push 124 if all my slides are already pushed in all the way to play in-tune in higher regions ?
One more thing: I want ONE slide to move. Ever. Actually, I want NO slide to move, just valves. Anything else would be too complicated for my simple mind.

tubeast wrote:If You´re good enough to worry about this, You´re desperate enough to go out and find a decent used horn with five ore more valves.

You're right. Those Fafners/rotary Willsons/huge Rudy Bb's/..... do kinda suck!

Mine doesn't. In fact both 1-2-4 as well as 1 pulled + 4 works just fine on my old 5/4 4 valve Rudy BBb. Low C (1-2-3-4 with 4 pulled) is dead on. I sold my 5 valve BBb 1291 after I got the Rudy. You can lip the really big horns about 15 cents on either side of the note. The false tones are great as well - my Conn 2J is very easy and accurate to play down there.

Miraphone 184-4U CC - 124 push 1 slightly...
Kalison DS CC - 124 push 1 all the way (5th tuned to Db 235)
Alexander 164 5 valve - 45
YFB 621 - 45, push 5
Had a Conn 52J - 124 push (really short 1st on that horn)
Had an Alex 163 4 valve - 14 yank like he||

Just a few samples...

J.c.S.

4-5 on the Gnagey and Neptune. But on my old 184 (5th is 2 whole steps) low F locks in so well using 124 that I don't even have to push. 34 is a hair flat.

I usually use 12+4, but sometimes 1+4 with a pull (on either 1 or 4) is more convenient. A few years ago I made a Frankentuba out of an old Conn which originally had three top-action valves. I put on a Conn Sousaphone valve section and grafted a 4th valve on, using tubing that had much larger bore. (I think it was around 0.780".) It turned out that when the 4th valve slides were set for F and C to be in tune, the low Eb was right on with 1+4.