Horn Customisers HELP! How to make my horn "free-er flo

[Getzeng50s]

I play a 'stock' Getzen G50. I am in the beginning stages of getting/researching 6/4 horns. I know i need to get a bigger horn but as for right now, i just cant afford it. My main concern is my pedal register. The air is not very 'free flowing' down there as with 5/4 6/4 horns. I have no idea why that is, but i would be interested to knwo if anyone had any ideas or suggestions as to how to make my horn free-er flowing... bigger leadpipe, different tubing, different bell ect... i love the way the horn plays, just dont have the cash for the larger horn easier blow.
mike

[Mark E. Chachich]

I did two things that made my MW 32 open up, especially in the low range.

a.) relax while playing and slow the air stream, this was the most important, gave the greatest results and was the least expensive

b.) match the mouthpiece to the tuba (I settled on a Bach 12 for this tuba)

good luck,
Mark

[Rick Denney]

The air is not very 'free flowing' down there as with 5/4 6/4 horns.

I suspect there is more happening behind the mouthpiece than in front of it.

I have a big Holton, and I find that I must play low F's and E's perfectly for them to resonate properly. In contrast, I can pop out powerful low F's on my smaller York Master without a second thought. The 4/4 YM has a 3/4" bore on the fourth valve, while the 6/4 Holton has an .810" bore.

I've heard more than one top player talk of sleeving the fourth valve on big Holtons, or doing things like putting a matchstick in the tuning slide opening of, say, a Conn BAT. These are things designed to add resistance so that they have something to work against.

Without that resistance, if you work too hard, the results will be counterproductive. I have to slow the air down and feed it to the low F on my Holton, finding the point where it resonates. As soon as I try to force it, it falls apart. In fact, learning to play the low F on the Holton resulted in much improved ability to play the low C on rotary F tubas.

My point is that you may find that the low G (since you're talking about a CC while my horns are BBb's) is easier on your Getzen than it would be on a lot of 6/4 instruments, depending on how you approach the note. Since you are undoubtedly a much better player than I am, the effects that I see at the equivalent of that low G might not affect you noticeably until the pedal register. But the answer may be the same: Use the resistance; don't fight it.

Rick "who thinks the resistance has to come from somewhere" Denney

[brianf]

I play a G50 and have absolutely no problem in the low range. Once someone played it and hated the low end, Why? Because they were using way to much air pressure and not enough air flow.

I'm afraid that's what might be going on, it is very common. While trying to solve it by doing something to the horn is, as they call it in the computer world, looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

[Getzeng50s]

I should have specified: The low register I speak of is the Ab two octaves below the staff and lower. Ive got no problems with the rest. I know we dont play down there that much, but on all the 6/4 horns i've tried those notes are not a problem. The warm up routine im being taught requires that i work on those notes, but they just dont speak.

The only way i can get them to speak is if i use a rediculously slow air stream (so much that a mouse can sneeze louder than i play them)

(?Maybe thats the nature of 4/4 horns, and i just need to keep practicing them to get them to speak?)

PS What mouthpieces are people using on this horn? Im on a Dillon M1C

[brianf]

The only way i can get them to speak is if i use a rediculously slow air stream

Now you're getting it! The lower you go, you need less air pressure and more air flow. Work in that direction and soon you will be doing pedal D's that will rattle the place - you can do it on the G 50!

[Alex Reeder]

I play on a G50 that I absolutely love. I am working on the low range a lot now also. What I found I had to do was play around with the angle of the mouthpiece and its placement on my lips. While this is not ideal for flexibility, that has helped me and now I will work on bringing the same feel back to more normal embouchure positions. It's interesting you are having trouble with too much resistance in the pedal register - where I have the most trouble is the D and Db just above pedal C, but I guess that's probably just because almost al the valves are down.

P.S.: I'm using a Laskey 28H, which I think is a great match for the horn and really brings out the resonance.

[Matt Walters]

You got some great advice about slower air velocity. And in the long run, that is what will do you the most good. However, we can 'tweak' the horn to make it play a bit more open. Can't fix the horn long distance, but there are some manufacturing things that can be fixed on most Getzen tubas that will let the horn blow freer. If you are going to be in the NYC area, call to make an appointment.

[corbasse]

...... Why do tubas sound lower than, say, trumpets? One reason is definitely the length of the instrument, but another (major) factor is the size of the mouthpiece. Since I'm the kind of person who would do something like this ... I tried playing a "french" horn with my tuba mouthpiece and found that I had tuba range with it. ......

I think being used to the mouthpiece is definatively the biggest factor. I can actually go lower on my french horn than on my BBb tuba, with a better sound. I even get better low notes if I stick my french horn mouthpiece inside the tuba mpc!
Why? Because I practiced the low horn register for years and years, and the tuba for a grand total of 4 weeks. Bigger mpces are surely not the only solution

[jon112780]

Well this brings up a few interesting things I've found. Some brands play better with warm air and some play better with cold; some brass players tend to think:
Warm=Slow
Cold=Fast

Now for these two kinds of air I've found CC tubas that (I think) play best (in the low range) for different kinds of air.

Fast/Cold Air:
MW 2145/2155/2000/2165
Mirafone 1290
PT3/4 (piston or rotary)
Culbertson 6/4 (piston or rotary)


Slow/Warm Air:
Mirafone 184/186/188/1291
Hirsbrunner (Any)
Rudy Meinl (Any)


Either (user-friendly):
Wilson 5/4
Getzen 4/4
PT6 (piston or rotary)
Besson/Nirschl 4/4

just my $0.02

[Steve Inman]

I want to cast a vote re: mpc selection. If you've been doing everything else you can (i.e. following the advice here), you may also consider visiting a large tuba store and trying out different mpcs.

When I owned a Besson 983 Eb, the compensating low register was difficult to get a quick response on. A PT-72 mpc happened to be the one that really helped the notes pop out easily and quickly (for me). There was a very significant difference between that mpc and all of the others I had previously tried.

(But as stated above, technique will likely be the main ingredient for success.)

Good luck,

[Getzeng50s]

I switched to a Laskey 30H and i love it. many problems being solved. but im also working on air flow, ive always been taught to put an incredible amount of air into the horn, and well.. thats just not the case anymore. oh well.... this learning thing is a pain in the butt..