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I've just recieved a new York Preference 3094 BBb to check out and feedback on over the weekend.

Luckily I'm playing a lot with some good bands (my own and Fodens) Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so will have a chance to put it through it's paces against my Imperial and LMI Royal.

If anyone's interested I'll post more after the event, or if you have any questions ask now!

From the picture it looks like it has more the proportions of the Besson 992, rather than 994 - is that right?

What is your initial impression of build quality?

Andy,

how are the ergonomics?

i'm testing a front-action willson (4p+1r) for the moment, and I'm very comfortable holding it for longer periods, even though the thing weighs 12.5 kg.
I played a besson 700 BBb for 4 years and ergonomics should have to improve drastically before I ever would want to switch back to 3+1 again (even in band)
I did play this York in Frankfurt (blowing in the ears of Mr. Childs jr. ...) 2 years ago and was pleased with the piston action.

WIM

Give us a full comparative report, please.

Shiny!!!!!

Well, not quite what I hoped for!

A good basic indicator is that I did the Fodens concert on my Imperial!

Here's a side by side with my LMI, showing that they're basically identical ergonomically and size wise, besides the slightly different height of leadpipe:
The York has no 4th valve slide water key. The finish and workmanship looks very good.

As for opinion, rather than the above facts, these are just my findings, and I'm willing to accept some might just be me!

I couldn't get it up to A440 pitch. In fact, 438 was as near as I could.

D's below the stave are unplayable on 1+2, 3rd is the only option, but this is common on all post 992 Sovereign clones.

It's too open blowing. As in, not enough back pressure. This meant (to me):-

it was physically exhausting to maintain a normal dynamic compared to the other basses to hand,
and I couldn't get a big enough sound without the sound distorting.

I couldn't get anything above F to slot properly, very hit and miss.

The sound is, I don't know, "watery"? ie say my LMI is Cream, this is skimmed milk? Well, maybe semi skimmed.

Whilst trying it out at the band room, a respected colleague just shook his head and said, "Nah, other sounds a lot bulkier". I can't disagree.

So, harder work to play, not very well in tune, a "weak" sound, not good in the higher register.

BUT the new Besson is only slightly better!

I'll sum up by saying I'm glad I've found a good Imperial, with the LMI for Band work to back it up!

Andy, You say you find it too open blowing. In that case does it appear to have a wider bore leadpipe than the LMI, or Imperial? Just interested.

Good Job, Andy!!!!

I was hoping to hear better things about these instruments. Glad you had something to compare with, a real-life situation for evaluation, and feed back from listeners as well. That all makes for a much better evaluation than somebody picking up a horn in a demo situation for 10 minutes then saying it spoke to them or it was crap!

It makes me wonder a bit if maybe the brass band here might not be better off finding a couple old Imperials or early Sovereigns and having them full reconditioned with a few mods like getting rid of the carrier ball, a new, lowered lead pipe with standard American size receiver might not be a better and far cheaper alternative to buying new instruments. They need a BBb and Eb and are hoping (dreaming??) of getting the pair for $20grand Australian.

Thanks for the report.

Ken (who is doing a bit of un-retirement playing on a converted from High to low pitch Imp 3 banger which went to the second war and looks and plays like it.) Herrick in the land of Oz.

Andy, is the receiver and the leadpipe on the Imperial the original ones?

If so, which mouthpiece do you use?

Klaus

Neptune wrote:Andy, You say you find it too open blowing. In that case does it appear to have a wider bore leadpipe than the LMI, or Imperial? Just interested.

Same I think, but not sure.

Ken Herrick wrote: It makes me wonder a bit if maybe the brass band here might not be better off finding a couple old Imperials or early Sovereigns and having them full reconditioned with a few mods like getting rid of the carrier ball, a new, lowered lead pipe with standard American size receiver might not be a better and far cheaper alternative to buying new instruments. They need a BBb and Eb and are hoping (dreaming??) of getting the pair for $20grand Australian.

Absolutely! BBb Imperials are cheap over here when they come up, around £700-900 in reasonable condition. Mine was £700, plus about £250 of slide chopping, joint soldering and cleaning.

imperialbari wrote:Andy, is the receiver and the leadpipe on the Imperial the original ones?

If so, which mouthpiece do you use?

Klaus

Yes original. Mike Finns on both. On the EEb I use a MF4, on the BBb's MF3's.