Playing the Tuba and Wrist Tendonitis

[TubaNorth]

Has anyone had experience with wrist tendonitis and playing the tuba?

I am 51 and recently started playing tuba again after a 25 year hiatus. I am playing a Yamaha YBB-641. My right wrist at and around the base of my thumb and a little further up the wrist occasionally becomes quite painful. Based on my homework to date, I think it may be tendonitis.

This condition started about 2-weeks after I began playing the Yamaha. The horn belongs to a local wind ensemble and is in great shape. However, as I consider purchasing a horn of my own, I am concerned about purchasing a valve front style, if in fact this is related to the cause, and am wondering if a top valve style horn might be better for my wrist.

I have an appointment to see a doctor, but am trying to get educated on the issue and am looking for voices of experience.

Thanks

[geneman06]

I don't have tendonitis in my wrist (its in my knees), but I have experienced wrist pain while playing. IMO, most rotor valve tuba force you to angle your hand down, which can cause a lot of discomfort. If you're into rotor valve horns, you should look into the Marzan slant rotor horns, they are very ergonomical and comfortable to play.

If you're into piston horns, I'd suggest looking into Sam Gnagey's horns. I've never played one but most of the ones I've seen have the valve block angled to help with ergonomics much like the marzan horns. another route to explore would be messing with different strength springs. Putting Yamaha springs in my PT606ps and 45sLp made a lot of difference in comfort while playing.

Hope this helps,

Gene

[JTJ]

I play the euphonium, am in my 50s and have exactly the same problem. In my case, I was flexing the wrist in a way which put stress on that tendon. Saw a doctor and a physical therapist. They gave me a brace to use while playing, which did not help much. The best help for me has been to be aware of the position of my wrist and try to keep it in a neutral position while playing. Over time the tendonitis has gotten better.

John

[Bob Kolada]

The problem is the valve paddles- where they are (height and location wise) on the tuba, length,....

Almost all rotary tubas have the paddles too high and too far over on the instrument for anyone over 5' tall. In the same vein, the 4th paddle does not need to be as long as most of them are (since your hand will be at an angle if you don't have very short arms). I also think most paddles are too far out on the tuba and could be closer to the valves.

When I play a regular rotary contrabass (problem is slightly mitigated on very small, usually bass, tubas as they are smaller overall) I have my hand at a natural angle (continuing the line of the "V" with my forearm), my pointer, middle, and ring fingers slightly curved and roughly near the normal spot, and my pinkie almost straight and much further in on the paddle.


If I were to buy a rotary tuba, I would probably have the linkage moved closer to the actual valves and have all the paddles the same length.

Piston horns CAN have a better angle, but if they don't fit you (as many do not fit me at 6'10") then there's nothing you can do. This is why I do not have a MW2141 or a 621F (not both!).
The VMI 3301 has a great valve angle for me, but they stick out rather far out of the tuba. 1291's are pretty good and I suspect a 2341 would be too. Conn 56J's are not and comparing pictures of 2341's and 56J's it seems that the valve set is further down on the tuba. Front piston tubas with sousa-style valve sets suck (my little King is doable).

[WakinAZ]

As said above, your hand/wrist is probably at an awkward angle when you are playing. Try playing the horn as upright as possible, instead of the traditional leaning over to your left, which makes the angle worse. Also, a playing stand may help reduce any tension from your right hand trying to support horn weight rather than just moving paddles.

[imperialbari]

I agree with the angle between hand and paddles being a likely cause of the problem. If you at the same time use the right arm/hand to support the tuba’s balance, then you are inviting problems. A tuba stand might very well relieve some of the stress to your wrist. I use K&M stands, which are the standard in my country. You may prefer the Baltimore Brass stand.

I only have tried a YBB-641 once. It was still in factory set-up, and I found the valve action extremely stiff and non-friendly. A brass repairman may be able to do adjustments to the springs, if they are part of the problem.

Klaus

[MartyNeilan]

Hold your right hand out in front of the tuba, like you are getting ready to play it, but NOT on the valves. Keep everything loose and relaxed, as natural as possible. Now, look where your fingers are in relation to the buttons / spatulas. Are they pretty close? Good, no worries. Do you have to tilt your wrist at an odd angle or go through any other contortions? Then you have several other options. Change how you hold the horn, the angle you tilt it, height, etc. You may want to consider tuba stand or other mechanical device to assist. Lengthen or add extensions to the buttons or spatulas. Could be as easy as soldering a quarter on the end of one lever. Or, in the case of rotors, the entire assemble holding the levers and springs could be moved or angled, with the appropriate lengthening / shortening of the linkage rods. Most rotor tubas are setup to be most comfortable if held straight up, which we probably don't do. Think Marzan as a better alternative.

Oh, and remove the thumb ring! Probably the best thing you can do to improve ergonomics on about half the horns out there.

[BrassedOn]

Long term the only solution is
Using a horn and hand position that don’t strain the hand wrist arm. Sometimes sitting differently, using a tuba stand, or holding differently help, but if wrist is jacked you’ll likely have pain and damage eventually. Many of us have sold a horn just for that reason, we could not find some ergo solution. Depending on the person, front action vs top action or rotary vs piston, 4 vs 3+1 may be a factor. But it comes down to person matching horn and optimizing playing position.

AND playing is physical and repetitive exercise, so integrate regular stretching and strength training in your routine. If you go from little hand exercise to a lot of playing, your supporting muscles and tendons may be weak and thus prone to such injury. Also take care in carrying the horn in the case. I try to use my left hand so as not to bother my Valve hand.

While recovering, if you start feeling pain you’re putting strain on the tendons. So stop when your body tells you. This is not the kind of pain you can typically “walk off” or play through. Stretching the muscle so it’s more elastic and pliable does help. What the braces, compression sleeves and bands do is distribute some of the tension to differently places in your arm. The band with the gel pad worked best for me. YMMV Basically like a suspension bridge. Instead of the muscle being attached by just the tendons at the elbow and wrist, it adds a support in the middle, adding point of contact. Relief, some protection, but does not replace healing and strength training.

[MaryAnn]

I didn't realize you had dug up an old thread until I saw a post from Klaus and then I looked at the date. Yikes.

[MikeW]

I used to get wrist pains, which I attributed to overuse of a computer mouse.
Eventually I got lucky and sprained an ankle. Being forced to use a walking stick gave my wrist enough exercise to fix it.
For some of you, it may be worth your while to get a walking stick and lean on it a bit while walking. Of course, for some of you that may make things worse. YMMV in spades.